Never took him for much of a podcast guy, but listening to him almost brings a tear to my eye of what we once were. It's a much different era of football but can't help but think this organization could use a little Coughlin again.
Great interview
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If Tom Coughlin doesn't like you, it's you.
It starts at the 1:16:26 mark actually...
He wasn't in that real top tier of HCs, certainly wasn't revolutionary in any way, but I think he's a HOF'er.
If Tom Coughlin doesn't like you, it's you.
Yep, Mara had that coming.
Great HC. Wellington got that one right and good job by Ernie adjusting to emphasizing the lines with premium assets when he was hired.
I think he is a top tier HC.
The door is right over there. Bon voyage!
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Even during the good years, winning Superbowls, this forum was almost as bad as it is today. "Gilbride sucks" "TC has aged out" Same bull$hit, different era from our $hit fanbase.
The door is right over there. Bon voyage!
I got a take: Gilbride sucked in 2013 and Coughlin aged out.
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In comment 16649475 4xchamps said:
Quote:
Even during the good years, winning Superbowls, this forum was almost as bad as it is today. "Gilbride sucks" "TC has aged out" Same bull$hit, different era from our $hit fanbase.
The door is right over there. Bon voyage!
I got a take: Gilbride sucked in 2013 and Coughlin aged out.
I would argue poor drafting started to show up on the roster vs Gilbride sucking and Coughlin aging out...
That you're a part of lol
Tom Coughlin gets all the credit he deserves for two glorious Super Bowl runs. They may put him in the NFL Hall of Fame. The other 10 years he coached the Giants they didn't win a single playoff game.
He was a stickler for discipline but would lose his temper on the sidelines and show up his players.
He was a stickler for rules but got disciplined by the league for cheating on the CBA when he went back to Jacksonville. Players had to follow his rules, whether they liked them or not. He, though, didn't always follow rules he didn't like. Didn't like the union? Didn't like the CBA or the practice rules? Fine, but you don't get to ignore them.
He was always obsessed with military-style demeanor and discipline. I think it was an affectation. It's football, not war, and he was working with athletes, not soldiers. He could have served in the military. If he had a physical limitation that kept him from serving, I'm not aware of it. But he chose football, first at Syracuse and then coaching. He always seemed to be trying to turn his teams into military units, or at least what he imagined the military to be, since he didn't serve. Honor the military? Sure. Pretend you're in it? No.
On the plus side, he was a great motivator, one way or another. Coughlin was good at getting players to give their all and avoid "business decisions." Unfortunately, over a long football season, that leads to injuries. The whole "injuries are a cancer" thing became an embarrassment when his teams were constantly ravaged by injuries. That may have been partly an unintended consequence of TC's approach. I don't know how a coach should handle that over a 17-game, soon to be 18-game, NFL season.
I don't think it's important that players enjoy working for a coach, as long as they're winning; the Walsh/Siefert 49ers didn't. A lot of Coughlin's players didn't, even on his best teams. Even players who didn't like him came to appreciate how prepared they were under his leadership. But he had his flaws.
Tom Coughlin gets all the credit he deserves for two glorious Super Bowl runs. They may put him in the NFL Hall of Fame. The other 10 years he coached the Giants they didn't win a single playoff game.
No coach in recent history (40 years) has survived missing the playoffs in 6 out of 7 seasons, and only Chuck Noll and Norv Turner (lol) survived missing the playoffs 4 years in a row. Worth noting that Noll had won 4 superbowls and even he couldn't survive missing 6 out of 7.
You could argue whether Coughlin deserved to stay or not (considering the next coach was MacAdoo, you'd have a strong argument), but his firing was not unprecedented or outrageous by any means.
On the plus side, he was a great motivator, one way or another. Coughlin was good at getting players to give their all and avoid "business decisions." Unfortunately, over a long football season, that leads to injuries. The whole "injuries are a cancer" thing became an embarrassment when his teams were constantly ravaged by injuries. That may have been partly an unintended consequence of TC's approach. I don't know how a coach should handle that over a 17-game, soon to be 18-game, NFL season.
I don't think it's important that players enjoy working for a coach, as long as they're winning; the Walsh/Siefert 49ers didn't. A lot of Coughlin's players didn't, even on his best teams. Even players who didn't like him came to appreciate how prepared they were under his leadership. But he had his flaws.
My take on Coughlin: incredible postseason coach, maybe second only to Belichick. A guy who can prepare a team for a single game or a 3-4 game stretch better than anybody.
For a 16 game regular season though? Much sketchier with a lot of late-season drops of focus.
2013 team didn't give up and finished 7-3. Eli, Tuck, Rolle, and Cruz. Beyond that, the dropoff was something else. Hakeem Nicks and JPP took a swan dive into oblivion and the offensive line was just terrible.
I mean Eli played like shit too that year. 27 interceptions or whatever.
Haha, outside of Eli and OBJ in 2014-2015, those starting rosters were absolute shit. JPP blew off (part of) his fucking hand and came back and was the best player on defense.
2013 team didn't give up and finished 7-3. Eli, Tuck, Rolle, and Cruz. Beyond that, the dropoff was something else. Hakeem Nicks and JPP took a swan dive into oblivion and the offensive line was just terrible.
I mean Eli played like shit too that year. 27 interceptions or whatever.
Haha, outside of Eli and OBJ in 2014-2015, those starting rosters were absolute shit. JPP blew off (part of) his fucking hand and came back and was the best player on defense.
2015 offensive roster was good and the offense was top five. The defense was garbage. Historically these teams finish 8-8 and the projected win total for that team was about 8 wins. They won 6. There were late-game management issues against the Cowboys and the Patriots, but what stands out is getting swept by an equally bad Eagles team, including losing the season finale where they passed on several opportunities to go for it on 4th in Eagles territory in a shootout game with Eli and OBJ.
Coughlin was a great coach who did not make a case for himself to return in 2015.
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On the plus side, he was a great motivator, one way or another. Coughlin was good at getting players to give their all and avoid "business decisions." Unfortunately, over a long football season, that leads to injuries. The whole "injuries are a cancer" thing became an embarrassment when his teams were constantly ravaged by injuries. That may have been partly an unintended consequence of TC's approach. I don't know how a coach should handle that over a 17-game, soon to be 18-game, NFL season.
I don't think it's important that players enjoy working for a coach, as long as they're winning; the Walsh/Siefert 49ers didn't. A lot of Coughlin's players didn't, even on his best teams. Even players who didn't like him came to appreciate how prepared they were under his leadership. But he had his flaws.
My take on Coughlin: incredible postseason coach, maybe second only to Belichick. A guy who can prepare a team for a single game or a 3-4 game stretch better than anybody.
For a 16 game regular season though? Much sketchier with a lot of late-season drops of focus.
Daball has those same qualities...
As for Coughlin, I concede it was about time for him to go. But, keeping Reese on and then letting him go on a defensive spending spree immediately was horrible. Mara was shady on this one because he seemed intent on getting Coughlin out and keeping Reese, yet he said the reason they were lousy was personnel. There's a big disconnect there. I would be fine with showing Coughlin the door if Reese was also given an exit at that time.
Outside of those two, who did they have? Jennings? Tye? Larry Donnell? Andre Williams? Hakeem Nicks for two games at the end of the career?
Lol. Surprised Coughlin even got 6 wins out of them with that garbage and kept them in games. And the defense was historically just as bad.
How do you outscore a team who scores 6 TDs? Score 7 on their defense. That was a reference to the 2015 Saints game by the way.
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On the plus side, he was a great motivator, one way or another. Coughlin was good at getting players to give their all and avoid "business decisions." Unfortunately, over a long football season, that leads to injuries. The whole "injuries are a cancer" thing became an embarrassment when his teams were constantly ravaged by injuries. That may have been partly an unintended consequence of TC's approach. I don't know how a coach should handle that over a 17-game, soon to be 18-game, NFL season.
I don't think it's important that players enjoy working for a coach, as long as they're winning; the Walsh/Siefert 49ers didn't. A lot of Coughlin's players didn't, even on his best teams. Even players who didn't like him came to appreciate how prepared they were under his leadership. But he had his flaws.
My take on Coughlin: incredible postseason coach, maybe second only to Belichick. A guy who can prepare a team for a single game or a 3-4 game stretch better than anybody.
For a 16 game regular season though? Much sketchier with a lot of late-season drops of focus.
You misspelled injuries... Every Season they had a big injury issue to overcome, until the OL finally collapsed in 2012
As for Coughlin, I concede it was about time for him to go. But, keeping Reese on and then letting him go on a defensive spending spree immediately was horrible. Mara was shady on this one because he seemed intent on getting Coughlin out and keeping Reese, yet he said the reason they were lousy was personnel. There's a big disconnect there. I would be fine with showing Coughlin the door if Reese was also given an exit at that time.
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Gilbride was guilty of pointing out the OL was old and nobody was being brought in to maintain it. Instead of improving the OL, he was shown the door and McAdoo brought in for a WCO. Initially, Eli looked great in this system, but it was clearly more of the Coughlin influence than McAdoo, b/c as soon as Coughlin was out the door, the offense went in the shitter. McAdoo's offense was not the same.
As for Coughlin, I concede it was about time for him to go. But, keeping Reese on and then letting him go on a defensive spending spree immediately was horrible. Mara was shady on this one because he seemed intent on getting Coughlin out and keeping Reese, yet he said the reason they were lousy was personnel. There's a big disconnect there. I would be fine with showing Coughlin the door if Reese was also given an exit at that time.
"Killdrive" was an innovative mind on offense. Mara panicked after the one year when Eli threw a lot of picks and saddled Coughlin with McAdoo the moron. None of the team's present circumstances was preordained; it was the result of one bad decisions after another.
If he was such an innovative offensive mind why has no NFL team hired him in any capacity since he was let go? His offense worked if QB and WR were on the same page, but it was atrocious if they didn't.
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Gilbride was guilty of pointing out the OL was old and nobody was being brought in to maintain it. Instead of improving the OL, he was shown the door and McAdoo brought in for a WCO. Initially, Eli looked great in this system, but it was clearly more of the Coughlin influence than McAdoo, b/c as soon as Coughlin was out the door, the offense went in the shitter. McAdoo's offense was not the same.
As for Coughlin, I concede it was about time for him to go. But, keeping Reese on and then letting him go on a defensive spending spree immediately was horrible. Mara was shady on this one because he seemed intent on getting Coughlin out and keeping Reese, yet he said the reason they were lousy was personnel. There's a big disconnect there. I would be fine with showing Coughlin the door if Reese was also given an exit at that time.
"Killdrive" was an innovative mind on offense. Mara panicked after the one year when Eli threw a lot of picks and saddled Coughlin with McAdoo the moron. None of the team's present circumstances was preordained; it was the result of one bad decisions after another.
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In comment 16649656 Matt M. said:
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Gilbride was guilty of pointing out the OL was old and nobody was being brought in to maintain it. Instead of improving the OL, he was shown the door and McAdoo brought in for a WCO. Initially, Eli looked great in this system, but it was clearly more of the Coughlin influence than McAdoo, b/c as soon as Coughlin was out the door, the offense went in the shitter. McAdoo's offense was not the same.
As for Coughlin, I concede it was about time for him to go. But, keeping Reese on and then letting him go on a defensive spending spree immediately was horrible. Mara was shady on this one because he seemed intent on getting Coughlin out and keeping Reese, yet he said the reason they were lousy was personnel. There's a big disconnect there. I would be fine with showing Coughlin the door if Reese was also given an exit at that time.
"Killdrive" was an innovative mind on offense. Mara panicked after the one year when Eli threw a lot of picks and saddled Coughlin with McAdoo the moron. None of the team's present circumstances was preordained; it was the result of one bad decisions after another.
If he was such an innovative offensive mind why has no NFL team hired him in any capacity since he was let go? His offense worked if QB and WR were on the same page, but it was atrocious if they didn't.
IMO His OL was falling apart and they couldnt get it fixed... it took a decade to finally get it fixed..
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In comment 16649656 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Gilbride was guilty of pointing out the OL was old and nobody was being brought in to maintain it. Instead of improving the OL, he was shown the door and McAdoo brought in for a WCO. Initially, Eli looked great in this system, but it was clearly more of the Coughlin influence than McAdoo, b/c as soon as Coughlin was out the door, the offense went in the shitter. McAdoo's offense was not the same.
As for Coughlin, I concede it was about time for him to go. But, keeping Reese on and then letting him go on a defensive spending spree immediately was horrible. Mara was shady on this one because he seemed intent on getting Coughlin out and keeping Reese, yet he said the reason they were lousy was personnel. There's a big disconnect there. I would be fine with showing Coughlin the door if Reese was also given an exit at that time.
"Killdrive" was an innovative mind on offense. Mara panicked after the one year when Eli threw a lot of picks and saddled Coughlin with McAdoo the moron. None of the team's present circumstances was preordained; it was the result of one bad decisions after another.
If he was such an innovative offensive mind why has no NFL team hired him in any capacity since he was let go? His offense worked if QB and WR were on the same page, but it was atrocious if they didn't.
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In comment 16649580 81_Great_Dane said:
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On the plus side, he was a great motivator, one way or another. Coughlin was good at getting players to give their all and avoid "business decisions." Unfortunately, over a long football season, that leads to injuries. The whole "injuries are a cancer" thing became an embarrassment when his teams were constantly ravaged by injuries. That may have been partly an unintended consequence of TC's approach. I don't know how a coach should handle that over a 17-game, soon to be 18-game, NFL season.
I don't think it's important that players enjoy working for a coach, as long as they're winning; the Walsh/Siefert 49ers didn't. A lot of Coughlin's players didn't, even on his best teams. Even players who didn't like him came to appreciate how prepared they were under his leadership. But he had his flaws.
My take on Coughlin: incredible postseason coach, maybe second only to Belichick. A guy who can prepare a team for a single game or a 3-4 game stretch better than anybody.
For a 16 game regular season though? Much sketchier with a lot of late-season drops of focus.
Bullshit. This is the thinking that has led us to where we are: an NFL laughingstock.
They became a laughingstock because of all the bad decisions they made afterward, not solely because they let go of Coughlin. Nobody trashed the Steelers for getting rid of Chuck Noll, because they brought in an actual program builder in Bill Cowher afterward. No Broncos fan is flipping out over losing Mike Shannahan because they eventually landed on the Peyton Manning era a few short years later.
Outside of those two, who did they have? Jennings? Tye? Larry Donnell? Andre Williams? Hakeem Nicks for two games at the end of the career?
Lol. Surprised Coughlin even got 6 wins out of them with that garbage and kept them in games. And the defense was historically just as bad.
How do you outscore a team who scores 6 TDs? Score 7 on their defense. That was a reference to the 2015 Saints game by the way.
A really good QB and No. 1 WR is enough to create a top 5 offense, and the OL was about average that year. They were in position to win several games and messed it up. It was well known at the time and Giants fans and national media were rightfully up-in-arms at decisions that cost them against the Cowboys and Patriots, not to mention the Jets, Plus flat performances on the road against mediocre Washington and Philly teams.
There were arguments to keep Coughlin at the end of 2015, but almost nobody argued he did a 'good' job that particular season.
'81, TC college coach was a decorated Army Officer. Perhaps that had some influence on him as did Parcells who TC called a dictator.
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In comment 16649475 4xchamps said:
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Even during the good years, winning Superbowls, this forum was almost as bad as it is today. "Gilbride sucks" "TC has aged out" Same bull$hit, different era from our $hit fanbase.
The door is right over there. Bon voyage!
I got a take: Gilbride sucked in 2013 and Coughlin aged out.
OL and offense in general fell apart in 2013. Nicks was shot. No running backs. OL was an absolute disaster. D played hard.
Coughlin coached as well as anyone in 2015. Getting that team to score 427 pts was an achievement. Aged out my ass.
Again, your QB throws 6 touchdowns and you lose the game because the opponent got 7 touchdowns thrown on them and your going after Coughlin?
Trying to pin blame on Coughlin for the Giants being a 6 win team with that garbage defense and conveniently forgetting winners such as Ruben Randle running wrong routes is weird.
He was a stickler for discipline but would lose his temper on the sidelines and show up his players.
He was a stickler for rules but got disciplined by the league for cheating on the CBA when he went back to Jacksonville. Players had to follow his rules, whether they liked them or not. He, though, didn't always follow rules he didn't like. Didn't like the union? Didn't like the CBA or the practice rules? Fine, but you don't get to ignore them.
He was always obsessed with military-style demeanor and discipline. I think it was an affectation. It's football, not war, and he was working with athletes, not soldiers. He could have served in the military. If he had a physical limitation that kept him from serving, I'm not aware of it. But he chose football, first at Syracuse and then coaching. He always seemed to be trying to turn his teams into military units, or at least what he imagined the military to be, since he didn't serve. Honor the military? Sure. Pretend you're in it? No.
On the plus side, he was a great motivator, one way or another. Coughlin was good at getting players to give their all and avoid "business decisions." Unfortunately, over a long football season, that leads to injuries. The whole "injuries are a cancer" thing became an embarrassment when his teams were constantly ravaged by injuries. That may have been partly an unintended consequence of TC's approach. I don't know how a coach should handle that over a 17-game, soon to be 18-game, NFL season.
I don't think it's important that players enjoy working for a coach, as long as they're winning; the Walsh/Siefert 49ers didn't. A lot of Coughlin's players didn't, even on his best teams. Even players who didn't like him came to appreciate how prepared they were under his leadership. But he had his flaws.
Having played my football days in the 80s, that's typically how a football was coached and run. Very much a miliary-styled approach, discipline, accountability. Sir yes sir! Run through walls etc.
I also found alot of hypocritical behavior from older generations in those days. In those days, it was much less about the individual and their feelings, and more about the greater good. You took your lumps mentally and physically.
It's the way it was then. Now, there's so much money at stake, and expected to be had once a kid reaches NIL levels or higher. A kid's feelings have more avenues to be heard now, a coach has fewer places to act a fool and hide.
As for Coughlin, I concede it was about time for him to go. But, keeping Reese on and then letting him go on a defensive spending spree immediately was horrible. Mara was shady on this one because he seemed intent on getting Coughlin out and keeping Reese, yet he said the reason they were lousy was personnel. There's a big disconnect there. I would be fine with showing Coughlin the door if Reese was also given an exit at that time.
This ^. Scapegoating Gilbride for Reese's inability to infuse talent on the lines of scrimmage was the first mistake. The second mistake, and probably the fatal mistake for this franchise that has resulted in a decade of being the laughingstock of the NFL, was firing a HoF calibre head coach in favor of a guy who never played organized football and only claim to fame was being Aaron Rodgers' quarterback coach. A role my ten year old nephew could do quite competently!
Even if Coughlin's "time had come", you only fire a guy like Coughlin if the alternative is superior. Someone who has the NFL credibility and gravitas to continue the legacy set forth by Parcells and Coughlin. Unfortunately, Andy Reid was probably the right guy, but he was hired a year earlier and there was no way Coughlin was getting fired after 2012. Other alternatives at the time were guys like Cowher and Gruden. But if guys of this calibre weren't interested or not available, you don't fire Coughlin! The sheer knowledge and ultra-respect that was forced out the door was criminal and illustrates the hubris of the ill-informed to even contemplate that he could be replaced by a guy like Ben McAdoo!
Exactly. TC's time had come and gone, he was done.
McAdoo was actually a tight end in high school. I was referring to organized football at the NCAA/NFL level. I am sure he was a hell of a pee wee football player too, just like my ten year old nephew! But maybe if he had had some real experience as a player it might have given him some needed legitimacy beyond his extensive coaching experience as Aaron Rodgers' indentured servant.
We saw how Kurt Warner played in the Coughlin/Gilbride system. I've said for a long time that none of the "elite" QBs could run the Giants offense in those days as well as Eli forget about better.
None of the announce crews/national media ever said a word about it. I can't remember any local writers talk about it either.
IMO Eli was the MVP of the NFL in 2011. No other QB in the NFL would have won a Super Bowl with the 2011 Giants roster and coaching staff.
I can't imagine Tom being able to tolerate DJ's performance for much more than half a season. He'd probably stroke out on the sideline by game ten.