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Are we missing the opportunity Lock presents?

GiantTuff1 : 10/16/2024 3:28 pm
So much conversation with Jones, and the desire to get Devito in to replace him since there is no future with Lock. Believe me, I am advocate #1 in sending Jones to the bench like yesterday, but I would not go straight to Devito.

People talk about setting the right conditions to evaluate Jones and the QB position. But what about setting the proper conditions to evaluate Daboll and what his scheme needs to be successful? Drew Lock has by far the biggest arm of the QB room, a quality Daboll took advantage of with Josh Allen. Lock's arm means potential opportunities to make certain types of passes and the ability to push the ball down the field in a manner the other QB's cannot. The arm talent of Lock better approximates the version of QB arm talent that enabled everyone to become enamored with what Daboll was doing in Buffalo. Sure, Lock will not be able to produce anywhere near the level of Allen, or as consistently, but he can do some Allen "lite" things the other QB's cannot. I want to see if having a huge arm is a prerequisite to winning in this scheme.

To find out, I propose putting Lock in at QB to evaluate Daboll and his scheme with a big-armed QB. Lock may suck, but the goal is to learn something valuable about Daboll and his system, which traits are most important in the system, so that it can inform future decision making on QB prospects.

Commit to Lock for the next 3 games. Let's see what a rifle and a little reckless abandon looks like in this scheme. If Lock doesn't perform in this time, and there is no reason to think he will, we move to Devito and give him the remainder of the year to discover another side of learnings. Maybe he surprises, who knows. But hopefully we will have seen enough to add to our knowledge base to improve decision making on prospects.
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Fine with me.  
nygiantfan : 10/16/2024 3:34 pm : link
Not sure Lock presents all that much, but it is pointless to keep playing Jones.

Jones has proven he is not good enough to be a starting NFL QB and he/coaches keep slamming him into the heart of defense just to get an occasional first down. This has become the definition of futility to keep expecting something to change with the offense with him under center.
Lock is very bad  
Aaroninma : 10/16/2024 3:35 pm : link
Jones is a far better QB
To steal from GoTerps...  
IchabodGiant : 10/16/2024 3:37 pm : link
The organization wanted Jones, so they need to eat the DJ shit sandwich every week. No cop outs; no exit ramp. All season.

Unfortunately that means we have to also; but hopefully brighter days ahead with a new QB in 2025.
RE: Lock is very bad  
nygiantfan : 10/16/2024 3:38 pm : link
In comment 16649612 Aaroninma said:
Quote:
Jones is a far better QB


scary thought
Lock  
Breeze_94 : 10/16/2024 3:46 pm : link
Higher ceiling than DJ but lower floor. He’ll turn the ball over and make life difficult on the defense. You’ll see more games like week 1 vs Minn. At least with DJ at QB, we know that the defense can keep them within striking distance.

Tbh, I would not hate them going to Devito at some point. He was at least exciting to watch and the team seemed to rally around him last year. He’s also the only QB who is under contract next year so may as well see if he can be a capable backup.
They had a guy who could throw the deep balls  
Lambuth_Special : 10/16/2024 3:48 pm : link
And throw TDs at home on top of that. He's now on the Jets, and Lock is worse than him.
you know what  
46and2Blue : 10/16/2024 3:53 pm : link
Lock is. Start devito, least he throws the ball down the field. Its a lost season, no reason for DJ 2.0 AKA drew lock
RE: To steal from GoTerps...  
jvm52106 : 10/16/2024 3:54 pm : link
In comment 16649615 IchabodGiant said:
Quote:
The organization wanted Jones, so they need to eat the DJ shit sandwich every week. No cop outs; no exit ramp. All season.

Unfortunately that means we have to also; but hopefully brighter days ahead with a new QB in 2025.


That is a stupid statement and sentiment. If Jones gets hurts it hurts next year. Its one thing to be against a player and another to wish long term harm to the franchise to feel vindicated somehow. This is when I lose belief that some are actually Giants fans. Be done with Jones, YES! Play a backup who might actually spark the team- YES! Wish the guy you hate stays the QB so that you get your weird perceived pound of flesh- NO!
All he has going for him is the arm.  
Matt M. : 10/16/2024 3:56 pm : link
As bad as Jones is, Lock is much worse and makes more bad decisions. I still don't like signing him in the first place. He is the worst of the 3 QBs. I would rather see DeVito, who had some success throwing downfield last year. I wouldn't mind another extended look at him in this system to see if he can be a viable option to keep. He has a miniscule chance of sticking and potentially backing up next year. Lock has zero.
RE: Lock is very bad  
Section331 : 10/16/2024 3:59 pm : link
In comment 16649612 Aaroninma said:
Quote:
Jones is a far better QB


I’ll give you that Jones is better, but far better? Not a chance. At least Lock will look deep.

I don’t see much upside with Lock, that’s why I’d rather see DeVito. Maybe he’s no better than either Jones or Lock, but why not find out?
I’ll let you Christian  
JT039 : 10/16/2024 4:01 pm : link
Take this one…
......  
Route 9 : 10/16/2024 4:12 pm : link
Am I answering the question who I'd rather see at QB to ... get us a better spot in the draft?

If so, I'm going with Jones from here on out. Let him lead us to glory ... in the draft!
Why is Drew Lock the best option we have at QB?  
HardTruth : 10/16/2024 4:19 pm : link
A journeyman who has failed everywhere and a UDFA 2nd year player who we benched

Those are our alternatives. Why?

Thats the question we should be asking
RE: I’ll let you Christian  
bw in dc : 10/16/2024 4:24 pm : link
In comment 16649646 JT039 said:
Quote:
Take this one…


Speaking of the Prez of the DSFC, it would be great if Lock started, did great, and Slayton was the beneficiary.

That might break him... ;)
In this world here are only two tragedies:  
81_Great_Dane : 10/16/2024 4:28 pm : link
One is not getting what one wants, and the other is getting it. — Oscar Wilde

"You cried for night... it falls... now cry in darkness." - Samuel Beckett
 
christian : 10/16/2024 4:50 pm : link
The only thing Lock will accomplish is making fans want Jones back.

Even Darius Slayton can't save Lock.
RE: RE: To steal from GoTerps...  
IchabodGiant : 10/16/2024 5:07 pm : link
In comment 16649633 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 16649615 IchabodGiant said:


Quote:


The organization wanted Jones, so they need to eat the DJ shit sandwich every week. No cop outs; no exit ramp. All season.

Unfortunately that means we have to also; but hopefully brighter days ahead with a new QB in 2025.



That is a stupid statement and sentiment. If Jones gets hurts it hurts next year. Its one thing to be against a player and another to wish long term harm to the franchise to feel vindicated somehow. This is when I lose belief that some are actually Giants fans. Be done with Jones, YES! Play a backup who might actually spark the team- YES! Wish the guy you hate stays the QB so that you get your weird perceived pound of flesh- NO!


I don't hate Jones. I just don't think he's a good QB.

I'm not trying to get a pound of flesh.

The organization made the decision to give him a contract, and then not come up with viable backup options this season. So now they (we) get to suffer through a full season of DJ.

Pretty simple.
If Lock is as bad as everyone says....  
Fishmanjim57 : 10/16/2024 5:11 pm : link
Why did Schoen sign him? Wasn't there any other options the GM could have taken to ensure a quality back-up QB behind Jones?
This whole QB situation is in Joe Schoen's lap. He offered Jones the ridiculously high contract that was approved by the co-owner of the team, but Schoen created the contract that Jones signed.
Schoen is also responsible for the lack of quality in the QB room by signing Drew Lock and not cutting Tommy DeVito.
Joe Schoen is surviving on borrowed time, and he should hear the wrath of the fans while we continue hollering about the level of ineptness at that position on Schoen's team.
If I was the HC of the Giants I would bench Jones and hand the ball to Drew Lock. If Lock is as lousy as everyone claims, then the Giants will have to draft their next starting QB in the 2025 NFL Draft.
RE: Lock is very bad  
HomerJones45 : 10/16/2024 5:19 pm : link
In comment 16649612 Aaroninma said:
Quote:
Jones is a far better QB
This is total nonsense. Play Lock or don't play him, I don't care but to breezily say Jones is better is baloney.
Thank goodness  
regischarlotte : 10/16/2024 5:29 pm : link
for this board.

Always raising options that the coaching staff would otherwise fail to consider.

Another win for the internet.
RE: Thank goodness  
IchabodGiant : 10/16/2024 5:32 pm : link
In comment 16649766 regischarlotte said:
Quote:
for this board.

Always raising options that the coaching staff would otherwise fail to consider.

Another win for the internet.


This x 1000. It's on the organization. DJ is our best QB, by far. Yet, he is not a good QB.

We are in hell and deserve it.
RE: RE: Lock is very bad  
GiantTuff1 : 10/16/2024 5:33 pm : link
In comment 16649620 nygiantfan said:
Quote:
In comment 16649612 Aaroninma said:


Quote:


Jones is a far better QB



scary thought

It's a scary thought but it is also an unproven thought as it relates to Lock in Daboll's scheme, since he has never played in a regular season game with Daboll or with the 1st team. To compare apples to apples, give Lock his shot and let's see who really is worse.
With Thomas out, DJ's days are numbered  
David B. : 10/16/2024 6:15 pm : link
When DJ inevitably gets hurt, Lock comes in, and is probably worse. Lock gets Hurt, DeVito comes in.

The Giants lose enough games to get a top 3 pick.

You could make the case for benching DJ and starting Lock (to keep DJ healthy). Then Lock gets hurt, and you're back to DJ, and yada yada.

All moot. The Giants are not going to give up on the season.
RE: If Lock is as bad as everyone says....  
HomerJones45 : 10/16/2024 6:22 pm : link
In comment 16649758 Fishmanjim57 said:
Quote:
Why did Schoen sign him? Wasn't there any other options the GM could have taken to ensure a quality back-up QB behind Jones?
This whole QB situation is in Joe Schoen's lap. He offered Jones the ridiculously high contract that was approved by the co-owner of the team, but Schoen created the contract that Jones signed.
Schoen is also responsible for the lack of quality in the QB room by signing Drew Lock and not cutting Tommy DeVito.
Joe Schoen is surviving on borrowed time, and he should hear the wrath of the fans while we continue hollering about the level of ineptness at that position on Schoen's team.
If I was the HC of the Giants I would bench Jones and hand the ball to Drew Lock. If Lock is as lousy as everyone claims, then the Giants will have to draft their next starting QB in the 2025 NFL Draft.
+1 Good post
I'd like to see Devito but since he's not even active on game day  
Blue21 : 10/16/2024 6:30 pm : link
I realize the likelihood of that is nil. More than likely Lock would get the call.
You used opportunity and Lock  
gridirony : 10/16/2024 6:46 pm : link
in the same sentence.
RE: I'd like to see Devito but since he's not even active on game day  
JoeSchoens11 : 10/16/2024 6:50 pm : link
In comment 16649793 Blue21 said:
Quote:
I realize the likelihood of that is nil. More than likely Lock would get the call.
This. Why would anyone think DeVito would suddenly leapfrog Lock on the depth chart?
Put Lock in for the rest of the season.  
bwitz : 10/16/2024 7:03 pm : link
Jones should be an after thought at this point.
I don't think Lock is any worse than DJ  
PatersonPlank : 10/16/2024 7:08 pm : link
He has a big arm and will take more chances down the field. It may lead to more turnovers but it will also create more big plays. I'd like to see what he can do frankly
DJ struggles  
fkap : 10/16/2024 7:22 pm : link
with the deep ball, and isn't all that accurate with the short and intermediate. His processing speed is suspect, although he seems to be OK in the mental department.


IF Lock can make the throws, he would have to be horrible in the mental department to be worse than DJ.

They aren't benching DJ, yet, but when they do, it'll be for Lock.
Some of you are going to get what you wished for and now you don’t  
Ivan15 : 10/16/2024 7:33 pm : link
Like what you are getting.

Based on Jones’ 6 years experience and Lock’s 6 years experience, Jones hasn’t improved and hasn’t learned shit. Lock may show bad judgment some times and get intercepted more often, but he can throw long, isn’t afraid to throw into tight windows, can look for his second option, throw outside the hash marks and throw completions on the move better than Jones. And he can learn from his mistakes. Jones apparently can’t, as shown be his interception Sunday.
RE: RE: To steal from GoTerps...  
Go Terps : 10/16/2024 7:44 pm : link
In comment 16649633 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 16649615 IchabodGiant said:


Quote:


The organization wanted Jones, so they need to eat the DJ shit sandwich every week. No cop outs; no exit ramp. All season.

Unfortunately that means we have to also; but hopefully brighter days ahead with a new QB in 2025.



That is a stupid statement and sentiment. If Jones gets hurts it hurts next year. Its one thing to be against a player and another to wish long term harm to the franchise to feel vindicated somehow. This is when I lose belief that some are actually Giants fans. Be done with Jones, YES! Play a backup who might actually spark the team- YES! Wish the guy you hate stays the QB so that you get your weird perceived pound of flesh- NO!


It's not stupid. I want whatever is going to get a new regime here.

You're still stuck on getting wins this year. Short term thinking.
It is obvious that all the Giant quarterbacks are backup types  
Maijay : 10/16/2024 7:47 pm : link
I am obsessing about DJ's injury settlement clause in his contract and the onerous damage it will cause on the team's cap situation if gets hurt and can't play. DJ is done as the future qb of the team so sit him now and take the injury settlement off the table. Put in Lock or DeVito and we will still be a bottom rung team. We will have to hold our nose for the rest of the season and hope that our putrid offense nets the team a favorable draft position. Drafting a new qb early is essential and that Schoen/Daboll will pick a winner. Eventually we will get it right at quarterback...Right?
So much concern over the injury clause  
Go Terps : 10/16/2024 7:58 pm : link
Where the hell was this concern when they actually paid him? You know...when it actually mattered?

This team has bigger issues than $23M in 2025 cap space.
Seattle  
AcidTest : 10/16/2024 8:07 pm : link
wanted to resign Lock after last season.

I'm fine with either him or DeVito. I just want Jones benched. His play stinks and if he gets hurt it might trigger his $23M injury guarantee.
RE: Lock  
MotownGIANTS : 10/16/2024 8:10 pm : link
In comment 16649623 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Higher ceiling than DJ but lower floor. He’ll turn the ball over and make life difficult on the defense. You’ll see more games like week 1 vs Minn. At least with DJ at QB, we know that the defense can keep them within striking distance.

Tbh, I would not hate them going to Devito at some point. He was at least exciting to watch and the team seemed to rally around him last year. He’s also the only QB who is under contract next year so may as well see if he can be a capable backup.



But Dabs is a QB whisperer .... let him earn his money
RE: So much concern over the injury clause  
GiantTuff1 : 10/16/2024 8:10 pm : link
In comment 16649833 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Where the hell was this concern when they actually paid him? You know...when it actually mattered?

This team has bigger issues than $23M in 2025 cap space.

It was otherworldly idiotic to put that clause in there while Jones had no leverage and the Giants bent over backwards negotiating against themselves. You are right in this way, the fact we even have to discuss it is an issue.
I said it last year  
The Jake : 10/16/2024 8:33 pm : link
I said it during the pre season

and I'll say it here again:

Tommy DeVito is the best QB on this roster.

full stop.
We should ask why the Steelers  
HardTruth : 10/16/2024 9:15 pm : link
Have the luxury of benching a 4-2 QB playing pretty well . These are two QBs who werent on their roster last year and they acquired for peanuts.

They are paying these two a combined 5 mil . They traded a 6th that can turn into a 4th but they also recouped 2 7ths and a trade down from 3rd to 4 for Pickett

Absolute peanuts
RE: We should ask why the Steelers  
GiantTuff1 : 10/16/2024 9:22 pm : link
In comment 16649896 HardTruth said:
Quote:
Have the luxury of benching a 4-2 QB playing pretty well . These are two QBs who werent on their roster last year and they acquired for peanuts.

They are paying these two a combined 5 mil . They traded a 6th that can turn into a 4th but they also recouped 2 7ths and a trade down from 3rd to 4 for Pickett

Absolute peanuts

Because the Steelers want to win games and not the favor of Justin Fields.
RE: We should ask why the Steelers  
bw in dc : 10/16/2024 9:40 pm : link
In comment 16649896 HardTruth said:
Quote:
Have the luxury of benching a 4-2 QB playing pretty well . These are two QBs who werent on their roster last year and they acquired for peanuts.

They are paying these two a combined 5 mil . They traded a 6th that can turn into a 4th but they also recouped 2 7ths and a trade down from 3rd to 4 for Pickett

Absolute peanuts



Pittsburgh has put on a clinic on how to manage the QB position until you find the right long-term solution.
RE: To steal from GoTerps...  
FStubbs : 10/16/2024 10:05 pm : link
In comment 16649615 IchabodGiant said:
Quote:
The organization wanted Jones, so they need to eat the DJ shit sandwich every week. No cop outs; no exit ramp. All season.

Unfortunately that means we have to also; but hopefully brighter days ahead with a new QB in 2025.


No. You don't want him getting hurt and potentially forcing another year of him because he's too expensive to part ways with due to the dumb injury clause.

The Giants would never do this, but Sunday should be his last start if they lose, as they would be reasonably out of contention at that point.
RE: I said it last year  
Jim in Tampa : 10/16/2024 10:12 pm : link
In comment 16649854 The Jake said:
Quote:
I said it during the pre season

and I'll say it here again:

Tommy DeVito is the best QB on this roster.

full stop.

You were wrong last year, wrong in the preseason and you're wrong now.

And finishing your post with the words, "full stop" doesn't make DeVito any better than the #3 QB.
RE: RE: I said it last year  
HardTruth : 10/16/2024 10:50 pm : link
In comment 16649924 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 16649854 The Jake said:


Quote:


I said it during the pre season

and I'll say it here again:

Tommy DeVito is the best QB on this roster.

full stop.


You were wrong last year, wrong in the preseason and you're wrong now.

And finishing your post with the words, "full stop" doesn't make DeVito any better than the #3 QB.


The evidence says

Jones is 3-9 with 8 TDs and 10 ints in 12 starts last 2 seasons

DeVito is 3-3 with 8 TDs and 3 ints in 6 games in last 2 seasons

DeVito also beat a playoff bound Packers team in prime time with 3 TDs (something Jones hasnt done in 5 years) and a game winning drive

Whats your evidence?
I'm OK with moving down the chain -  
Del Shofner : 10/16/2024 11:00 pm : link
let Lock have his shot, if he sucks too let's try DeVito.

Either way, Jones should be benched based on performance.
RE: RE: RE: I said it last year  
GiantTuff1 : 10/16/2024 11:17 pm : link
In comment 16649944 HardTruth said:
Quote:
In comment 16649924 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 16649854 The Jake said:


Quote:


I said it during the pre season

and I'll say it here again:

Tommy DeVito is the best QB on this roster.

full stop.


You were wrong last year, wrong in the preseason and you're wrong now.

And finishing your post with the words, "full stop" doesn't make DeVito any better than the #3 QB.



The evidence says

Jones is 3-9 with 8 TDs and 10 ints in 12 starts last 2 seasons

DeVito is 3-3 with 8 TDs and 3 ints in 6 games in last 2 seasons

DeVito also beat a playoff bound Packers team in prime time with 3 TDs (something Jones hasnt done in 5 years) and a game winning drive

Whats your evidence?

Same amount of TD passes in 50% less games, better Int ratio, and Devito did not get to play with this year’s offensive line and a true number 1 receiver.
I think the team sees things similarly to many here.  
BigBlueNH : 10/17/2024 2:13 am : link
They're already planning to move on from Jones after this year. And they'll play Locke to avoid the injury clause being triggered. But only after the team is "out of it". And mgmt is likely to hold onto hope longer than many of us.

As others have mentioned, they've seen enough of all 3 to think Jones gives us the best chance of winning, at least so far. Doesn't mean he's good; just better than the other 2.
I agree and like  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/17/2024 8:57 am : link
your thought that getting a good evaluation on Daboll is critical to see if he should coach the team next season.

I think he should play whoever he thinks gives him the chance to show that. I have hardly seen Lock play.
Lock never should have been signed in the first place  
Eightshamrocks : 10/17/2024 9:23 am : link
DeVito proved he can be a good backup based off his play last season. Why waste money on Lock? Should have allocated elsewhere. The third string QB could have been some UDFA.
Like I have said, if Jones stinks this week, you pull him at half time and put in Cutlets. Daboll has shown he wants to run his system a certain way, and Devito is probably better suited to running the 4 wide shotgun system. Jones is the choice if Daboll were to run the system he used 2022 and against Seattle. If Daboll insists on calling plays like he did in the 1st have against Cincinatti, then playing Jones is pointless.
RE: Lock never should have been signed in the first place  
IchabodGiant : 10/17/2024 9:29 am : link
In comment 16650011 Eightshamrocks said:
Quote:
DeVito proved he can be a good backup based off his play last season. Why waste money on Lock? Should have allocated elsewhere. The third string QB could have been some UDFA.
Like I have said, if Jones stinks this week, you pull him at half time and put in Cutlets. Daboll has shown he wants to run his system a certain way, and Devito is probably better suited to running the 4 wide shotgun system. Jones is the choice if Daboll were to run the system he used 2022 and against Seattle. If Daboll insists on calling plays like he did in the 1st have against Cincinatti, then playing Jones is pointless.


Playing Jones isn't pointless if you are Daboll. He is the best QB on the roster, by far, and Dabs needs to win games.

Continually bringing up 2022 and the Seattle game is so dumb. A legitimate NFL QB should have been able to execute Daboll's game plan against Seattle. He can't read a defense.

Jones is just a bottom tier QB. Jones can play the rest of the year, then we look towards his replacement in 2025.
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