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The Giants bought insurance on Andrew Thomas

Blue Baas : 10:27 am
Cap tidbit: when Andrew Thomas restructured his deal they bought injury insurance (same with Burns and Dex), so the Giants will pick up a few million for next year for the 11 games he's missing.

The insurance coverage stuff is relatively new in the NFL, so I don't know 100% how it works, and the Giants have done much of. It came up last year a few times because the Jets didn't buy it for Rodgers.

Should be an interesting new cap mechanic to learn about.
Link - ( New Window )
I think it just means that they get the cash back  
Essex : 10:39 am : link
which is really the salary cap as opposed to the accounting tricks that the NFL makes teams go through. In other words, your salary cap is what you want to spend and the fact that we will get cash back will help toward the cash cap (whatever Mara and Tisch set that out to be).
RE: I think it just means that they get the cash back  
Blue Baas : 10:48 am : link
In comment 16650084 Essex said:
Quote:
which is really the salary cap as opposed to the accounting tricks that the NFL makes teams go through. In other words, your salary cap is what you want to spend and the fact that we will get cash back will help toward the cash cap (whatever Mara and Tisch set that out to be).


The article linked describes it as cap rollover for 2025.

Quote:
Injuries are an unavoidable reality, so finding a way to roll over cap money to a future year for the purposes of "creating cap space out of thin air," the club executive for a longtime insurance buyer said, is one of the league's best-kept secrets.
It sounds like they should insure everyone,  
gridirony : 11:32 am : link
as there will be injuries.
Why wouldn't you do this on all  
logman : 11:38 am : link
high dollar contracts?
interesting article.  
fkap : 11:59 am : link
Thanks.

Of top importance is the cap ramifications. From a cap perspective, the premiums are free, while payouts increase the cap...IF that's a correct interpretation. IF so, we now have more money to spend. In spite of the article, I'm a bit skeptical.

Why wouldn't teams insure more? Sounds like the premiums are pricey and while they don't affect the cap, the cost eats into profit.
RE: interesting article.  
shyster : 12:05 pm : link
In comment 16650184 fkap said:
Quote:
IF so, we now have more money to spend.


Not now, the credit will apply to the 2025 cap. It will be a percentage of the salary paid to AT for the games that he misses. We don't know the percentage.

And presuming there is insurance, as the OP states.
surprising  
fkap : 12:06 pm : link
they didn't insure DJ, given his injury history. They could have saved a lot last year, and this year isn't over.
...  
christian : 12:14 pm : link
In comment 16650189 shyster said:
Quote:
Not now, the credit will apply to the 2025 cap. It will be a percentage of the salary paid to AT for the games that he misses. We don't know the percentage.

And presuming there is insurance, as the OP states.

Quote:
The Giants, who have insured very few players in the past, renegotiated the contracts of pass rushers Dexter Lawrence II and Brian Burns and left tackle Andrew Thomas this offseason to add insurance addendums for $10 million for the 2024 season.

I think the math on this one is pretty straightforward. Thomas has a 10M salary on 2024, and there is a 10M policy. So I imagine the pro-rated remainder is fully covered. At around ~6.5M.
NBA/MLB insures all big contracts  
larryflower37 : 12:15 pm : link
because they are guaranteed, The NFL doesn't have fully guaranteed contracts so they don't need to insure but you don't get cap space back based on the insurance but it saves the owner money.

Quote:
For example, in the NBA and NHL, player contracts are guaranteed. If a player sustains a career-ending injury a week after signing a 10-year contract, the player is still paid a full salary for the duration of the contract.

In these cases, teams can get disability policies for players. They come with big deductibles and really only cover the team in the event of a season- or career-ending injury. They are also expensive, so teams don’t insureeveryone on their payroll — just the top players.
Wasn't there a whiny thread  
section125 : 12:27 pm : link
about insurance last summer because the Eagles and a few other teams did it, but posters didn't think the Giants did?

RE: Wasn't there a whiny thread  
Gatorade Dunk : 12:32 pm : link
In comment 16650210 section125 said:
Quote:
about insurance last summer because the Eagles and a few other teams did it, but posters didn't think the Giants did?

I'm pretty sure that thread was more curious about whether the Giants had done so for DJ specifically (especially since he missed most of last season), and not "whiny" about the Giants in general (in fact, I thought there were some who noted that the Giants had taken out insurance on Thomas and Lawrence).

But even if it was, why shouldn't Giants fans be tired of their rivals finding loopholes that our own front office doesn't seem to utilize to the same degree? Those are legitimate advantages, or at least opportunities for advantage.
RE: Wasn't there a whiny thread  
Blue Baas : 12:34 pm : link
In comment 16650210 section125 said:
Quote:
about insurance last summer because the Eagles and a few other teams did it, but posters didn't think the Giants did?


There is another report on ESPN that also says this. It said the Eagles and 49ers did it much more, Eagles reportedly had insurance on 16 players. Meanwhile this was supposedly one of the first times the Giants ever have done this (there is no way to look this up, reporters can just ask their "insiders", and see if they'll talk).
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RE: NBA/MLB insures all big contracts  
shyster : 12:38 pm : link
In comment 16650197 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
because they are guaranteed, The NFL doesn't have fully guaranteed contracts so they don't need to insure but you don't get cap space back based on the insurance but it saves the owner money.



Yes, you do get cap space back (although not the same year). Giants will get a credit towards their 2025 cap.
RE: RE: Wasn't there a whiny thread  
section125 : 12:38 pm : link
In comment 16650215 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16650210 section125 said:


Quote:


about insurance last summer because the Eagles and a few other teams did it, but posters didn't think the Giants did?



I'm pretty sure that thread was more curious about whether the Giants had done so for DJ specifically (especially since he missed most of last season), and not "whiny" about the Giants in general (in fact, I thought there were some who noted that the Giants had taken out insurance on Thomas and Lawrence).

But even if it was, why shouldn't Giants fans be tired of their rivals finding loopholes that our own front office doesn't seem to utilize to the same degree? Those are legitimate advantages, or at least opportunities for advantage.


Yeah, it was pretty whiny. Some points were valid, yes. Others merely pot shots. But, that is my opinion.

Glad they did do this.
Can they insure against  
thrunthrublue : 12:46 pm : link
fan frustration? Losing? If so, they would be very happy and cashing in!
RE: ...  
shyster : 1:00 pm : link
In comment 16650195 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16650189 shyster said:


Quote:


Not now, the credit will apply to the 2025 cap. It will be a percentage of the salary paid to AT for the games that he misses. We don't know the percentage.

And presuming there is insurance, as the OP states.




Quote:


The Giants, who have insured very few players in the past, renegotiated the contracts of pass rushers Dexter Lawrence II and Brian Burns and left tackle Andrew Thomas this offseason to add insurance addendums for $10 million for the 2024 season.


I think the math on this one is pretty straightforward. Thomas has a 10M salary on 2024, and there is a 10M policy. So I imagine the pro-rated remainder is fully covered. At around ~6.5M.


Both Lawrence and Burns have base salaries less than $10M for 2024. So if they are insured for $10M, their insurance can't be predicated on base salary alone. And if it's not for them, then I don't think we can presume it is for Thomas either.

I would revise my previous statement to read that NYG's insurance credit for AT will be a percentage of his 2024 compensation attributed to the games that he misses. That percentage might be 100% or it might not.
RE: RE: Wasn't there a whiny thread  
djm : 1:47 pm : link
In comment 16650215 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 16650210 section125 said:


Quote:


about insurance last summer because the Eagles and a few other teams did it, but posters didn't think the Giants did?



I'm pretty sure that thread was more curious about whether the Giants had done so for DJ specifically (especially since he missed most of last season), and not "whiny" about the Giants in general (in fact, I thought there were some who noted that the Giants had taken out insurance on Thomas and Lawrence).

But even if it was, why shouldn't Giants fans be tired of their rivals finding loopholes that our own front office doesn't seem to utilize to the same degree? Those are legitimate advantages, or at least opportunities for advantage.


YEs I was one of the fans questioning or bitching. I am glad to learn the Giants are doing this.
then the questions arises re. DJ's injury guarantee in his contract  
ColHowPepper : 2:47 pm : link
Since it seems clear the FO is aware of insurance elements as they pertain to player availability, two questions arise:
1/it seems to me the Giants have an insurable interest in Jones' availability (viz. AT), can they/did they insure against the risk that his guarantee might be drawn, and thus not available to play--fact that FO might be contemporaneously or subsequently of the view that they won't want him on the roster not relevant for this purpose; and
2/ if such conditional insurable interest has given rise to payment of premium, could that give rise, whether '25 or '26 to a player cap offset? That seems unlikely but I'm spitballing here.
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