Inside BBI: Mara To Schoen, If We Lose It Better Not Be Because of Barkley!

Mckinney is a better and more valuable player than Barkley. He's probably having a better season. And Green Bay is a better team. Granted Philly is technically a rival, so there's that. But it seems our senior leaders barely know who McKinney is.

A 15 year old high school kid could have done the right thing and franchise Jones and sign Barkley.

Instead, our genius of a GM with or without the owner's hand in this, signed Jones to a gross 160 Million dollar contract and let Barkley go to the Eagles.

Maybe Barkley isn't the same player he was and maybe he does block like an anemic child, but he was the figurehead of this offense.

Now, we have to sweat out Jones year to make sure he doesn't get hurt enough to pass a freaking physical next year!

Who is running this freaking asylum!!!!

Hard Knocks when the owner say he will lose sleep over Barkley going to Eagles and you give a awkward smile saying i hear the bears are driving up the price. The team looks lost and schoen is just as much on the hot seat as Daboll

Isnt him not being a Giant

Saquon should not be on this team

The problem is that Saquon has proved to be valued by the NFL (and in particular our most hated rival) as a top 5 player at his position and he was allowed to leave here for no compensation

Schoen let a top 5 valued player at his position walk for absolutely nothing when he had multiple opportunities to avoid that situation

What should have been done by a competent GM was to sign Saquon Barkley at the contract the Giants originally offered in 2022 midseason and Saquon ultimately came around on season’s end but pulled and this deal proved to be less than him signed with Philly for. Jones would then have been tagged

Saquon then should have been traded last season by the deadline whild he was under this contract.

The Giants would have had extra draft picks and a ton of cap space by letting Jones go.

you can hear us rant about how much we hate the Eagles.

Saquon Barkley is so besides the point. Everything now rests on draft position and which QB prospect will be available.

In comment 16651023 HardTruth said:

Quote:

Isnt him not being a Giant Saquon should not be on this team The problem is that Saquon has proved to be valued by the NFL (and in particular our most hated rival) as a top 5 player at his position and he was allowed to leave here for no compensation Schoen let a top 5 valued player at his position walk for absolutely nothing when he had multiple opportunities to avoid that situation What should have been done by a competent GM was to sign Saquon Barkley at the contract the Giants originally offered in 2022 midseason and Saquon ultimately came around on season’s end but pulled and this deal proved to be less than him signed with Philly for. Jones would then have been tagged Saquon then should have been traded last season by the deadline whild he was under this contract. The Giants would have had extra draft picks and a ton of cap space by letting Jones go.

Yessir. How does the 20+ year NFL exec not even get some of it right.

the "Tommy, Tommy", Tommy." Chant for DeVito this Sunday? Would love to see Mara's face when it happens.

In comment 16651024 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

you can hear us rant about how much we hate the Eagles.

BTW- Eric and I planned on this being shorter and once again it didn't turn out that way. We will try and cut these down some.

If Barkley goes for 200 yards and 3 TDs he'll be doing the Giants a better service than anything he ever did while he was wearing the uniform.

In comment 16651023 HardTruth said:

Quote:

Saquon then should have been traded last season by the deadline whild he was under this contract. The Giants would have had extra draft picks and a ton of cap space by letting Jones go.

If I had to guess, Schoen would have much preferred moving Barkley last year, especially when Jones was declared out for the year.

But Mara wouldn't allow it because Barkley would still put asses in seats as long as the Giants are mathematically alive.

As we unearthed in Hard Knocks, player popularity is a very big deal with Mara...

from the get-go on both certainly have.

In comment 16651060 Go Terps said:

Quote:

If Barkley goes for 200 yards and 3 TDs he'll be doing the Giants a better service than anything he ever did while he was wearing the uniform.

Exactly. If this is what opens Mara's eyes to the ineptitude of DJ, Schoen and Daboll and punctures once and for all Mara's decade of delusion and denial, then that will be Barkley's greatest contribution to this franchise.

Giants are going to win. And win 3 out of the next 4 I'm telling ya! I believe in this defense. And hopefully Nabers back gives us enough on offense.

Attempt to toss and kick a trash can again.

Go Barkley!!!!!

These are great episodes guys, I really enjoy them. But, I just come away thinking NYG is always too late.

-Drafting Jones at 6 wasn't the disaster, the disaster was NYG waiting to be proven right for 6 years.

-Even signing Jones wasn't the disaster, not taking advantage of a pivot point in the 2024 draft was the real disaster.

Look at the Broncos. They are eating a shit ton of dead cap this year with Wilson, yet they are 4-3 and no one cares about Russell Wilson. They failed fast and the feeling around the franchise feels good.

If NYG had Penix or McCarthy, things may feel a lot different right now regardless of the Jones contract.

Would I fire Schoen & Daboll because of the Jones contract? No. But, I would fire them for their arrogance regarding the QB room in 2024.

So, any talk of going to Lock or DeVito now feels so late. Where was this in April?

The Jones excuse for this regime went away for me once they opted for Nabers over a QB. And to no surprise, this team is a shitty 2-4 and Nabers has already missed 2 games.

Give me Vrabel or Belichick with a new GM.

Will listen later, but I couldn’t care less about this game.

You're misunderstanding my point regarding wanting to see Jones start the rest of the year.

Is there a part of me that wants to see Mara, Schoen, and Daboll squirm as the crowd boos? Absolutely.

But the bigger reason is I want Schoen and Daboll to no longer be the GM and head coach after 2024. I WANT the snowball down the hill, because I think that's what spurs ownership into making a change and hiring a proven professional like Belichick or Vrabel.

The uglier it gets this year, the better I think it is for the organization in the long term.

I don't care about Jones anymore. This is about what Eric talked about early in the pod: the elephant in the room is whether Schoen and Daboll are safe. I really hope they aren't.

In comment 16651245 Go Terps said:

Quote:

You're misunderstanding my point regarding wanting to see Jones start the rest of the year. Is there a part of me that wants to see Mara, Schoen, and Daboll squirm as the crowd boos? Absolutely. But the bigger reason is I want Schoen and Daboll to no longer be the GM and head coach after 2024. I WANT the snowball down the hill, because I think that's what spurs ownership into making a change and hiring a proven professional like Belichick or Vrabel. The uglier it gets this year, the better I think it is for the organization in the long term. I don't care about Jones anymore. This is about what Eric talked about early in the pod: the elephant in the room is whether Schoen and Daboll are safe. I really hope they aren't.

I get what you are saying now, I am not 100% agreeing that is what you mean. You have stated over and ovber again that the fish stinks from the head down. That head has been insinuated as John Mara not the GM or coach. We have gone through Shurmur (coach), Gettleman (GM), Judge (Coach) with Daniel Jones as QB and now on to Schoen and Daboll as coach and GM with Daniel Jones. The lightning rod is Jones and who really decided that he was the guy etc. is still up for debate.

I don;t prefer to lose Daboll and Schoen (yet) as we change those situations way too much to establish anything. Which is why I want Jones on the bench to see how this team does with any other QB.. I still think Daboll can be a good coach but staying with Jones will change that opinion quickly!

but I accept he isn't going anywhere. Having accepted that, I think the best way to curb his negative influence is with an established guy in place - particularly at head coach. I really think the Giants would be well served to have the next head coach be a guy with some experience. I don't think it's a coincidence that McAdoo, Judge, and Daboll are all first time head coaches. Those guys are probably easier to control.

.

and I'm sure Mara won't be happy if Barkley kills the Giants. BUT, this has to be tempered by Tyrone Tracy to some degree. At his price and what he's shown so far, which would you rather have? I think Tracy has been good enough that Mara's probably like "it was the right move"

Stop listening to our predictions!

Another great listen. I agree with you guys 100% on Barkley, the state of the Giants, etc.

and DONT sell Slayton, Ojulari and anyone else not nailed down, they should be fired asap.

In comment 16651256 Go Terps said:

Quote:

but I accept he isn't going anywhere. Having accepted that, I think the best way to curb his negative influence is with an established guy in place - particularly at head coach. I really think the Giants would be well served to have the next head coach be a guy with some experience. I don't think it's a coincidence that McAdoo, Judge, and Daboll are all first time head coaches. Those guys are probably easier to control.

Pat Shurmur might as well have been a first time head coach as well. He had minimal presence and was hired with a 9-23 HC record in Cleveland.

I don't think Vrabel is perfect, but he's got a NFC East feel to me. This team needs a tough minded defensive HC after hiring offensive HC's every hire since Parcells.

Time to try something different.

In comment 16651262 Jim in Forest Hills said:

Quote:

and DONT sell Slayton, Ojulari and anyone else not nailed down, they should be fired asap.

1000% agree.

Are the Giants thinking they have a shot still with Jones vs do they just think they have a shot in general and Jones is the lesser of 3 evils? Good question to which we won't know the answer.

In comment 16651271 Matt M. said:

Quote:

Are the Giants thinking they have a shot still with Jones vs do they just think they have a shot in general and Jones is the lesser of 3 evils? Good question to which we won't know the answer.

Everything is conjecture, but I feel very strongly that the Giants do not think "they have a shot still with Jones..."

If they really DO think they have a shot, then this franchise is in even deeper shit than we could have ever imagined.

In comment 16651023 HardTruth said:

Quote:

Saquon then should have been traded last season by the deadline whild he was under this contract.

Remember, before last season Barkley was often injured. What was his value really? Put yourself in an opposing team's position in viewing Barkly up until the end of the prior season.

At the deadline, you are looking at teams that are making a run who could be interested. However, those teams were set at RB.

Good podcast thus far, but I had to stop at 19 minute mark after that Duggan comment about Giants not considering Jones’ injury clause to post this…

This organization is so fucking stupid.

Saquon Barkley's numbers this year as an Eagle(through 5 games):

91 carries for 482 yards(5.3 yrds/rush). 4 rushing TDs
14 rec for 92 yards. 1 rec TD.
No fumbles.

The three headed monster for the Giants backfield(through 6 games):

Singletary
56 carries for 221 yards(3.9 yrds/rush). 2 rushing TD.
4 rec for 72 yards. No rec TDs.

Gray
11 carries for 24 yards(2.2 yrds/rush). No rushing TDs
4 rec for 59 yards. No rec TDs.

Tracy Jr.
47 carries for 208 yards(4.4 yrds/rush). 1 rushing TD.
11 rec for 99 yards. No rec TDs.

The Giants backfield cumulative numbers are:
114 carries for 453 yards(4 yrds/rush). 3 rushing TDs.
19 rec for 230 yards. No rec TDs.

-------------------------------------------

Barkley signed a 3 yr/$37.74M deal w/ $26M guaranteed
2024 cap hit: $3.8M

Singletary signed a 3 yr/$16.5M deal w/ $9.5 guaranteed
2024 cap hit: $3.75M
Gray's contract: 4 yr/$4M w/ $245k guaranteed
2024 cap hit: $976k
Tracy's contract: 4 yr/$4.3M w/ $286k guaranteed
2024 cap hit: $866k

Draw your own conclusions.

In comment 16651327 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

Quote:

Good podcast thus far, but I had to stop at 19 minute mark after that Duggan comment about Giants not considering Jones’ injury clause to post this… This organization is so fucking stupid.

It is incredible isn't it?

overall.....The Eagles thought they had their #1 QB and person to take them to the super bowl in Wentz. They didn't wait six years for Wentz to demonstrate he wasn't the guy?

No, they pivoted to Hurts and on they went. Is Hurts a HOF QB? Probably not. But he has shown he can get the Eagles to the big game.

Our problem is we are still playing Jones now.....six years later.....even though he has clearly demonstrated he cannot progress beyond the inadequacies we saw in year 1!

Yes. The Mara's are f**king stupid football people. They have proven it for 50 years. The Mara's are why the Giants have been laughing stock for the past decade plus. The Mara's are why Daniel Jones is playing his 6th straight season as the Giants unchallenged #1 QB even though by almost every metric from the eye test to his won loss record he's been and still is one of the 5 worst starting QBs in the NFL.

Sunday Night game since 2020. The Giants fan base is shrinking. Last year the NFL had record ratings. The Giants local market ratings were down 14%. One of three teams in the red. I haven't been able to find anything on this years ratings.

I started following the Giants in 1965. They have had two sustained eras as a relevant Super Bowl contender. 1984-1990 and 2007-2011. Outside of those two periods the Giants have won a total of 5 playoff games.

From 1965-1983 they won once in 1981.

From 1991-2006 they won three times, once in 1993 and twice in 2000.

From 2012-2024, with no end in sight, they have won once in 2022.

Since 2012 the Mara's have had 3 GMs and 5 HCs. Yes they're f**king stupid football people and they're the problem and they're never going away.

have replaced Barkley's production for less than half the price. Only f**king stupid football people like the Mara's are complaining about Barkley being gone.

In comment 16651379 arniefez said:

Quote:

have replaced Barkley's production for less than half the price. Only f**king stupid football people like the Mara's are complaining about Barkley being gone.

It isn't about production it is about optics and heartstrings.

I think the fact that the division is so comparatively weak this year - between Philly, Washington, and Dallas, you can't confidently predict who will wind up taking it - that's factoring into the decision to start Daniel (who I believe does still give us the best chance to win).

If one of those teams was running away with it, with stiff competition for 2nd place - then I think they would have to calculate it differently.

I think it's unlikely that Daboll has some level of misplaced confidence in Jones's ability to do the job. I just think he believes it's not going to require some unprecedented elevation in his level of play to put us back in the hunt.

In comment 16651131 The Mike said:

Quote:

In comment 16651060 Go Terps said: Quote: If Barkley goes for 200 yards and 3 TDs he'll be doing the Giants a better service than anything he ever did while he was wearing the uniform. Exactly. If this is what opens Mara's eyes to the ineptitude of DJ, Schoen and Daboll and punctures once and for all Mara's decade of delusion and denial, then that will be Barkley's greatest contribution to this franchise.

I think you both have it backwards. The last thing we should want is Mara being proven right about wanting to keep SB and using this as justification to overrule GM’s decisions in the future.

So if our drafting stinks and our coaching stinks it is on the Maras plain and simple

.

he must have known this last year. So why didn't he engineer a trade? My guess is, Mara opposed the trade because he thought the Giants could win. This year, Schoen convinced Mara that Barkley was too expensive, so he reluctantly agreed to let him walk. If Mara doesn't understand that the Giants need a franchise QB and that Jones is not the guy, the Giants are in deep trouble so long as the job of the GM is hamstrung by Mara's ill-founded judgment.

Barkley can still be good on the Eagles and it was the right move NOT to re-sign him. You can make all the arguments about whether they should have drafted him in the first place, kept both him and Jones after 2022, traded him last year, etc. But, it came down to this off season decision regardless and Schoen was correct in his valuation of Barkley vs. the total roster. Even if Barkley is still a good player and even if he is a primary reason the Eagles beat us once or twice this year (or any year), he was not likely to be that good here. We wouldn't have had the same roster, we may have drafted differently, etc.

It's not like we were an amazing team with him. We had 1 winning season with him and he had 1 really good season and another good season. The rest have been injury riddle and/or meh. It was time to move on financially/cap-wise and his production ()good or bad) in Philly has nothing to do with what he could reasonably have been expected to do here.

I was one of his biggest fans and supporters here and I 100% realized it was time to go. Have we really missed him? I don't think so and I don't think we have a single win more if he were here.

In comment 16652030 GeofromNJ said:

Quote:

he must have known this last year. So why didn't he engineer a trade? My guess is, Mara opposed the trade because he thought the Giants could win. This year, Schoen convinced Mara that Barkley was too expensive, so he reluctantly agreed to let him walk. If Mara doesn't understand that the Giants need a franchise QB and that Jones is not the guy, the Giants are in deep trouble so long as the job of the GM is hamstrung by Mara's ill-founded judgment.

Mara stated publicly that he didn't want to trade Saquon. He actually said "We believe he deserves better".

However, we deserve what mara gives us.

Can some folks now see what we're up against?

more injury on the OL and the worst case scenario gets more likely.

Mara is like his Dad, they get a personal attachment to players. Mara also knows, had they re-signed him and Barkley had gotten injured again, then he'd be criticized for pressuring them.

And with Thomas and KT on IR - I think Barkley is not on the top of his list of worries.

In comment 16651219 Kev in Cali said:

Quote:

Attempt to toss and kick a trash can again. Go Barkley!!!!!

If you find yourself rooting for the Eagles against the Giants, you might possibly want to examine your journey as a fan. I’m mean for crying out loud, it’s the Eagles!

In comment 16651219 Kev in Cali said:

Quote:

Attempt to toss and kick a trash can again. Go Barkley!!!!!

If you find yourself rooting for the Eagles against the Giants, you might possibly want to examine your journey as a fan. I’m mean for crying out loud, it’s the Eagles!

In comment 16651256 Go Terps said:

Quote:

but I accept he isn't going anywhere. Having accepted that, I think the best way to curb his negative influence is with an established guy in place - particularly at head coach. I really think the Giants would be well served to have the next head coach be a guy with some experience. I don't think it's a coincidence that McAdoo, Judge, and Daboll are all first time head coaches. Those guys are probably easier to control.

And yet you want Arthur Smith, who last I checked is not an established big name coach. In fact he is kind of a loser too.

In comment 16652092 SirLoinOfBeef said:

Quote:

In comment 16652030 GeofromNJ said: Quote: he must have known this last year. So why didn't he engineer a trade? My guess is, Mara opposed the trade because he thought the Giants could win. This year, Schoen convinced Mara that Barkley was too expensive, so he reluctantly agreed to let him walk. If Mara doesn't understand that the Giants need a franchise QB and that Jones is not the guy, the Giants are in deep trouble so long as the job of the GM is hamstrung by Mara's ill-founded judgment. Mara stated publicly that he didn't want to trade Saquon. He actually said "We believe he deserves better". However, we deserve what mara gives us. Can some folks now see what we're up against?

How is toiling on a losing team better than going to a contender that wants you and needs you? This lack of self awareness in Mara and this "Giants way" is disturbing.