He's like a #4 or #5 starting pitcher in a baseball rotation. Sure, occasionally he'll have good games. The problem is he absolutely cannot do it consistently because he has a number of defects. Sometimes the stars align and he looks ok or even good, it just doesn't happen often enough.
playing defenses that don't exploit Jones' weaknesses. Bobby Skinner makes a compelling argument that Jones does well against the defenses that don't really conform to the opponent. They run their defense and that's it. Jones does well. When the defense game plans around Jones' weaknesses (I think he said two high safety looks but I could be wrong), he falls apart.
Since his rookie year, Jones has been pretty good against bad defenses and terrible against good defenses. Nothing has changed.
He's like a #4 or #5 starting pitcher in a baseball rotation. Sure, occasionally he'll have good games. The problem is he absolutely cannot do it consistently because he has a number of defects. Sometimes the stars align and he looks ok or even good, it just doesn't happen often enough.
You give him detailed directions to go different places. One time it's to the bathroom downstairs, one time to the shed in yard, one time to the house next door, etc. You'd work hard together on memorizing the directions, giving him details on ways he might go wrong, landmarks to touch etc.
If you did this 60+ time, sometimes he'd get there and sometimes he wouldn't. There would be some patterns - he'd be less likely to succeed on the longer/tougher journeys. But sometimes it's just - making a mister, accidentally veering in the right or wrong direction.
They know what Jones can do and can't do. It comes down to what the defense is good at (with their talent) and what they aren't. Jones is a one dimensional QB, if your defense has the personnel to play a certain way he's toast. So weaker defenses, who don't have the personnel, he can be ok. Good defenses, who can adjust gameplans based on the opponent, shut him down easily.
He is by definition a back-up NFL QB. This is what they are, guys who can not play in any style they need to, based on what the defense is doing, to win. They are guys who can play one way, and if its shut down you better have a good running game and defense.
Jones plays well against subpar to average defenses on the road where he starts the game clean. It seems he can't overcome early mistakes within a game and most importantly playing against strong defenses.
He's like a #4 or #5 starting pitcher in a baseball rotation. Sure, occasionally he'll have good games. The problem is he absolutely cannot do it consistently because he has a number of defects. Sometimes the stars align and he looks ok or even good, it just doesn't happen often enough.
Seriously. Do we need a thread for "when Alex Verdugo goes 2-4, what is it"? He's not Glennon or Fromm, he's a real QB, just not a very good one. But that's good enough to have the occasional good game.
He's like a #4 or #5 starting pitcher in a baseball rotation. Sure, occasionally he'll have good games. The problem is he absolutely cannot do it consistently because he has a number of defects. Sometimes the stars align and he looks ok or even good, it just doesn't happen often enough.
Seriously. Do we need a thread for "when Alex Verdugo goes 2-4, what is it"? He's not Glennon or Fromm, he's a real QB, just not a very good one. But that's good enough to have the occasional good game.
Apparently we do. Someone compared him to Victor Zambrano the other day lol. "Why doesn't Victor Zambrano do that thing where he looks like an ace every game?!?!?!?!" I don't know man, I don't know, maybe he never though of that.
When he plays well, he's living up to his draft billing
were when the running game worked. So he was left with a 3rd and 3 or 4. His 5 yard passes go for first downs. When the running game isn't working those 5 yard passes on 3rd and 10 results in a punt.
Most of his rookie successes were against god-awful defenses. And then in 2022 Daboll got him and Saquon to keep a few others off balance, but it didn't last long.
In between, playing well hardly ever occurred (except against maybe a few WFT games) so don't think there was a real factor to point to.
When playing on the road. He hates playing at home.
And yet the win loss record is virtually identical (losing record in both cases, 12-21 & 12-20-1). So what do we make of this? He sucks equally at home and on the road.
And he needs to be stationary when he passes. If one of these two conditions is absent, the outcome is usually not good. And if both conditions are absent, just move on to the next play.
When he plays well, he’s much more reactionary than his poor games where he seems to sit and think in the pocket.
For a physically tough kid, he isn’t very mentally tough, you can rattle him pretty easily and if he gets knocked out of rhythm early on, its very rare he gets back into it.
RE: RE: He has all the physical tools you are looking
for, which is why I think they have stuck with him for this long.
But mentally he cannot hack it if something negative happens especially at the beginning of the game. He can't recover.
And that is what separates a franchise QB from a mediocre one.
I understand the physical tools you are referring to, but Daniel Jones is also missing two very critical physical tools:
(1) He doesn't have the quicks. Nothing he does is speeded up, especially in the pocket. He doesn't slip and slide very well, he doesn't dart the ball out of his hand, and he doesn't accelerate very quickly. He's gangly and it takes him some time to get full control of his limbs.
(2) He does not throw very well on the run -- he can't torque he body very well to get any authority on the ball.
When he's off, all levels of his passing tree are an adventure. Even if he is doing everything else sort of right, when the ball isn't on the money, it's hard to look 'good'.
That said, he rarely looks good. A mediocre game is usually what people call good for DJ.
His team mates often let the team down, and that affects DJ stats and final score, but that isn't DJ not playing well.
Obviously, the opposing defense has a big impact. If they're shutting down WR, and the run game, it's hard for a QB to look good. In the past, this was the huge argument for not being able to judge DJ - that it was too easy to dominate the OL, and thus the run game and the pass rush, and the WR were meh, at best.
Typical shot down comment that this pathetic forum fanbase has become.... It's like you can't wait to be the clever putdown guy.
Sure, it's a sarcastic quip. But, nobody is waiting to be clever and nobody is rooting to be right about Jones sucking. Everybody would love to see a lights out QB (and overall team play) from now until week 17. But, the reality is, even the optimistic nature of the thread starter question is ridiculous.
First, he has not played "well" with any kind of consistency, so there is nothing to take from it and nothing to build on. The issue is JONES can't replicate it consistently, not the scheme, coaching, etc.
Second, his playing "well" is not really a very good game. Look at Seattle, for example. By all accounts, that was his best game in forever and some called it his best game as a Giant or since his rookie year. 257 yards and 2 TDs with 11 carries for 38 yards. That's not a great stat line. It is decent. It is not special; it is what is expected routinely from a good QB. That's like a barometer game for a good QB and this is the absolute, far and away best we've seen from Jones in forever. And then, what does he follow that up with the next week against a shitty passing D? A complete shitshow.
I find it more frustrating that if by some miracle we do play well and win on Sunday, that people will point to the 1 game as an example that we can win with Jones moving forward. That is way more frustrating than the wise-ass put downs that are too easy and just seem like piling on at this point (and of which I have probably been a little guilty of myself). 1 fucking game is proof of nothing. We get that with the Minny playoff game far too often. It's like the following week, which was far worse than the Minny game was good, never happened. It's like the overwhelming collection of absolute stinkers over 6 seasons never happened. And then we are supposed to hang our hats and hopes on the 2022 season as a whole, which itself was underwhelming as far as modern QB play. It was MEDIOCRE, but because Jones was overwhelmingly so bad, a lot people mistook that for good. It was a meh season for a QB that overall team play overcame.
He's like a #4 or #5 starting pitcher in a baseball rotation. Sure, occasionally he'll have good games. The problem is he absolutely cannot do it consistently because he has a number of defects. Sometimes the stars align and he looks ok or even good, it just doesn't happen often enough.
It’s no different than when Mitch Trubisky would play well. You give any reasonably talented NFL QB enough starts and some of them are going to be good.
The problem is that with Jones too many people assume the good games are the real him and everything else are anomalies, as opposed to vice versa.
Since his rookie year, Jones has been pretty good against bad defenses and terrible against good defenses. Nothing has changed.
+1, and typically on the road.
Second half against Az last year, not sure.
Seattle played Detroit the week prior. There is a hangover effect playing Det. Wasn't just Jones, the run game was working too.
Sucks Dal is on their bye this week because it would've been interesting to see after playing Det last week.
Those are the last 3 times I recall Jones "playing well"
If you did this 60+ time, sometimes he'd get there and sometimes he wouldn't. There would be some patterns - he'd be less likely to succeed on the longer/tougher journeys. But sometimes it's just - making a mister, accidentally veering in the right or wrong direction.
This is Daboll and Jones.
He is by definition a back-up NFL QB. This is what they are, guys who can not play in any style they need to, based on what the defense is doing, to win. They are guys who can play one way, and if its shut down you better have a good running game and defense.
Seriously. Do we need a thread for "when Alex Verdugo goes 2-4, what is it"? He's not Glennon or Fromm, he's a real QB, just not a very good one. But that's good enough to have the occasional good game.
LOL.
Quote:
He's like a #4 or #5 starting pitcher in a baseball rotation. Sure, occasionally he'll have good games. The problem is he absolutely cannot do it consistently because he has a number of defects. Sometimes the stars align and he looks ok or even good, it just doesn't happen often enough.
Seriously. Do we need a thread for "when Alex Verdugo goes 2-4, what is it"? He's not Glennon or Fromm, he's a real QB, just not a very good one. But that's good enough to have the occasional good game.
Apparently we do. Someone compared him to Victor Zambrano the other day lol. "Why doesn't Victor Zambrano do that thing where he looks like an ace every game?!?!?!?!" I don't know man, I don't know, maybe he never though of that.
Anybody is capable of pulling it together for a game or two. Question is can you do it for 17?
In between, playing well hardly ever occurred (except against maybe a few WFT games) so don't think there was a real factor to point to.
So we just need to draft a college QB that has a good home record, and rotate them?
And yet the win loss record is virtually identical (losing record in both cases, 12-21 & 12-20-1). So what do we make of this? He sucks equally at home and on the road.
Nearly a third of those were from 3 games from his rookie season. It’s 28 and 14 since then.
So he is a ... back up QB?
But mentally he cannot hack it if something negative happens especially at the beginning of the game. He can't recover.
And that is what separates a franchise QB from a mediocre one.
Second half against Az last year, not sure.
Seattle played Detroit the week prior. There is a hangover effect playing Det. Wasn't just Jones, the run game was working too.
Sucks Dal is on their bye this week because it would've been interesting to see after playing Det last week.
Those are the last 3 times I recall Jones "playing well"
I was at the Arizona game. It looked like on every play the assignment for the Arizona defense in the second half was just:
Stand there, apply no push rush, we need to lose to improve our draft, the Giants aren't getting in our way.
But mentally he cannot hack it if something negative happens especially at the beginning of the game. He can't recover.
And that is what separates a franchise QB from a mediocre one.
You know its coming, too.
I was surprised 0% when he threw that moron interception vs the Bengals.
But mentally he cannot hack it if something negative happens especially at the beginning of the game. He can't recover.
And that is what separates a franchise QB from a mediocre one.
Nah, his arm is average at best at this point. Especially compared to all the other QBs in the league.
But mentally he cannot hack it if something negative happens especially at the beginning of the game. He can't recover.
And that is what separates a franchise QB from a mediocre one.
The franchise has stuck with him because they aren't good at their jobs. They mentally cannot hack it.
That is what separates a good franchise from a bad one.
For a physically tough kid, he isn’t very mentally tough, you can rattle him pretty easily and if he gets knocked out of rhythm early on, its very rare he gets back into it.
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for, which is why I think they have stuck with him for this long.
But mentally he cannot hack it if something negative happens especially at the beginning of the game. He can't recover.
And that is what separates a franchise QB from a mediocre one.
The franchise has stuck with him because they aren't good at their jobs. They mentally cannot hack it.
That is what separates a good franchise from a bad one.
Both of these takes are correct. The front office suffers from the same type of mental blocks as the QB they can’t quit.
But mentally he cannot hack it if something negative happens especially at the beginning of the game. He can't recover.
And that is what separates a franchise QB from a mediocre one.
I understand the physical tools you are referring to, but Daniel Jones is also missing two very critical physical tools:
(1) He doesn't have the quicks. Nothing he does is speeded up, especially in the pocket. He doesn't slip and slide very well, he doesn't dart the ball out of his hand, and he doesn't accelerate very quickly. He's gangly and it takes him some time to get full control of his limbs.
(2) He does not throw very well on the run -- he can't torque he body very well to get any authority on the ball.
That said, he rarely looks good. A mediocre game is usually what people call good for DJ.
His team mates often let the team down, and that affects DJ stats and final score, but that isn't DJ not playing well.
Obviously, the opposing defense has a big impact. If they're shutting down WR, and the run game, it's hard for a QB to look good. In the past, this was the huge argument for not being able to judge DJ - that it was too easy to dominate the OL, and thus the run game and the pass rush, and the WR were meh, at best.
Typical shot down comment that this pathetic forum fanbase has become.... It's like you can't wait to be the clever putdown guy.
Quote:
I'll let you know when it happens
Typical shot down comment that this pathetic forum fanbase has become.... It's like you can't wait to be the clever putdown guy.
Laughing at it is all we have left. And guys like you that help make it happen.
So thanks.
And at this point in time after 6 f’n years who cares? He ain’t the guy, period.
Quote:
I'll let you know when it happens
Typical shot down comment that this pathetic forum fanbase has become.... It's like you can't wait to be the clever putdown guy.
First, he has not played "well" with any kind of consistency, so there is nothing to take from it and nothing to build on. The issue is JONES can't replicate it consistently, not the scheme, coaching, etc.
Second, his playing "well" is not really a very good game. Look at Seattle, for example. By all accounts, that was his best game in forever and some called it his best game as a Giant or since his rookie year. 257 yards and 2 TDs with 11 carries for 38 yards. That's not a great stat line. It is decent. It is not special; it is what is expected routinely from a good QB. That's like a barometer game for a good QB and this is the absolute, far and away best we've seen from Jones in forever. And then, what does he follow that up with the next week against a shitty passing D? A complete shitshow.
I find it more frustrating that if by some miracle we do play well and win on Sunday, that people will point to the 1 game as an example that we can win with Jones moving forward. That is way more frustrating than the wise-ass put downs that are too easy and just seem like piling on at this point (and of which I have probably been a little guilty of myself). 1 fucking game is proof of nothing. We get that with the Minny playoff game far too often. It's like the following week, which was far worse than the Minny game was good, never happened. It's like the overwhelming collection of absolute stinkers over 6 seasons never happened. And then we are supposed to hang our hats and hopes on the 2022 season as a whole, which itself was underwhelming as far as modern QB play. It was MEDIOCRE, but because Jones was overwhelmingly so bad, a lot people mistook that for good. It was a meh season for a QB that overall team play overcame.
This is insane.
Also, charge your phone.
It’s no different than when Mitch Trubisky would play well. You give any reasonably talented NFL QB enough starts and some of them are going to be good.
The problem is that with Jones too many people assume the good games are the real him and everything else are anomalies, as opposed to vice versa.