When asked if Eagles were doing anything different in first half, answered “Wasn’t really anything different, watch the target tape, I was open, that was it”
I really wanted to believe in DJ after 2019 and was mostly convinced Judge and Garret were the problem in 2020 and 2021, especially after 2022. After last year though, I wanted JJM in the draft. I’m firmly done, especially after seeing sacks today where the ball could have easily been thrown away.
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My view is that these 2 years were dead as soon as the Minnesota game ended. There is no GM, no coach that would move on from Jones in 2022 while John Mara was drooling all over an unrestricted free agent ahead of a negotiating period.
Having seen Nabers, we got a really good and really valuable player. This is not Barkley. Will Penix be good? Maybe, maybe not. If he's good, then passing on him was a big mistake. If not, then having Nabers instead of a mediocre QB is a big win. I'd have been very happy to draft Penix and for sure this year would be a lot more exciting. But bigger picture and through the lens of the Giants actually being good, I'm not sure it was a massive mistake.
The beauty of it is we'll find out really soon. If the QB we draft in 2025 is good, we'll forget about the 2024 decision regardless of how Penix (or JJM or Nix) turns out. I will eat crow if that happens. I just think it's a rare opportunity to draft someone with superior arm talent without being a top 3 pick. We're not quite bad enough to be picking there.
RE: moving on from a QB after playoff year. I'll say that is definitely the case for the Giants. But historically we've seen it on other teams. The Ravens moved on from Dilfer right after they won a Super Bowl. Because everyone with eyes knew he was a bottleneck for the offense.
To still be in the league leaders in turnovers despite that is incredible.
He got black-listed by the NFL for his behavior here, it is what it is. But he is a better football coach than Brian Daboll and the results here support that.
Surely such a fantastic DC should be able to dominate the collegiate level with such a schematic advantage, right?
How's that going for him? How's it going for Michigan?
It's almost like turnovers are a wildly volatile stat in year-to-year terms and have very little to do with who the defensive coordinator is.
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I will still say that the draft day uproar over the pick at the time was so over the top. I wanted him to prove his haters wrong and for a long time thought it was Judge and Garrett too. The last two seasons and especially this season shows if there is a preponderance of evidence that you suck over years, then you probably suck.
Jones has been more successful than many 1st round qb picks. He landed a huge 2nd contract, won a playoff game and has played 6 years in the league. His career isn’t over, he’ll be a backup (or maybe starter) somewhere else. He proved his draft day haters wrong.
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(which it would be really hard to be as bad as Daniel Jones has been) you'd still have hope for the future. You could accept losses or imperfect games if there is growth. Jones is who is he is at this point, which has made the last several years that much harder.
Trust me, I hate Daniel Jones. People say "nobody hates Daniel Jones." BS - i fing hate Daniel Jones.
Yeah I have no problem admitting I don't like him. Who cares how good of a person he is; I don't hang out with him. I only watch his bad football play, which only got worse after he strong-armed the FO into paying him $40 million a year.
I don't know any of these guys and I don't need to. Not sure why you would dislike a player who wasn't very good unless he was just a POS person also.
Nabers - ( New Window )
If the decision was made solely on performance, it would have been made by the Giants long ago.
To the OP, I doubt Nabers feels like he was covered during any play and I wouldn't construe the parsed quote too far out of context of the entire quote. That's just me....
I'm pretty sure Tom Glavine is a cool guy who i would like to play golf with, but i dislike him from his time with the Braves and getting absolutely shelled to cap off the Mets 2007 collapse. We've never said, "I'm sure Michael Rosival is a good guy but..." or "Victor Zambrano is probably a great dad" or "Ray Handley was really great with charitable causes".
Until Jones, we just said we didn't like the guys, even (gasp) that we hated them.
I don't know any of these guys and I don't need to. Not sure why you would dislike a player who wasn't very good unless he was just a POS person also.
I don't know, he's just a teacher's pet/coache's son type of player that puts all the signifiers of being good except on the field.
He also wanted to put the screws to the Giants in the 2023 offseason (hiring a new harder-edged agent) for declining his option, and while I blame Schoen for giving in, he has some balls asking for that money and then going out and playing like trash in his second contract.
How would it be possible to be 4-3 with a completely incompetent GM and coach? Every personnel move has sucked, every coaching move has sucked. I guess we are just assuming that Penix (who i do like) is an immediate top 5 QB?
I haven't said every personnel move sucked. I am saying, and have since this spring, that the team build is completely out of whack.
The timing is all off. This is built to win with Jones. I'm the NFL you don't just "build the roster and then get the QB" because by the time you get the QB the roster you built has come apart.
By the time the team is ready to have someone like Nabers contribute to a meaningful season, we're going to be talking about his impending free agency status and whether it's worth paying him.
I know WRs are getting paid, but look around the league and tell me if that is good policy.
Wide receivers are finishing pieces. If I'm running a team the prime resources are all going to QB/OL/DL, and figure the rest out later. There were several non-QBs I would have picked ahead of Nabers in this draft (Alt, Latu, and Verse off the top of my head to name some).
Nabers is a really, really good player that's played great this year. And his impact has been zero because the team he went to wasn't ready for him, and odds are they won't be again next year.
Now if I asked you "Who has shown more skill in building football teams, Schoen/Daboll or Jim Harbaugh", what's the answer?
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but why would you dislike the guy? I am sure he is trying his best and probably believes every series he is about the turn the corner. He frustrates the shit out of me, but that is because of the idiots that can't evaluate his skills and take the ball out of his hands. He shouldn't ask to get benched.
I don't know any of these guys and I don't need to. Not sure why you would dislike a player who wasn't very good unless he was just a POS person also.
I don't know, he's just a teacher's pet/coache's son type of player that puts all the signifiers of being good except on the field.
He also wanted to put the screws to the Giants in the 2023 offseason (hiring a new harder-edged agent) for declining his option, and while I blame Schoen for giving in, he has some balls asking for that money and then going out and playing like trash in his second contract.
I get the resentment because he is on a scholarship he didn't earn for all of the wrong reasons, but I don't hold it against anyone for trying to get all the money they can.
Jones did the Giants a favor by playing hardball, which should have made it even easier to move on from him. But when the owner of the team is slobbering all over you, why wouldn't you play hardball?
Jones wasn't the problem there. Mara and Schoen were.
Now if I asked you "Who has shown more skill in building football teams, Schoen/Daboll or Jim Harbaugh", what's the answer?
The answer to that question depends on who you are asking. If you asked Schoen and Daboll, they would have told you they had their QB, they had their LT, they just added to both the OL and DL through free agency and trade respectively.
I don't think it was team building philosophy. It was a failure to evaluate that they didn't have a QB. The same mistake they made in 2023 they just made again in 2024.
The more relevant question now is "Has Joe Schoen caught up to Eightshamrocks on his QB evaluation skills?"
I was there yesterday. Nabers was open all of the time. Yes, the OL was pathetic and he often had little time, but DJ is a single read and dump off quarterback. He is a "dumb terminal robot" executing a precise Daboll algorithm. Nothing more.
Naber's brute honesty could not be more refreshing in the midst of the gaslighting nonsense coming from the front office and coaching staff.
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Right Nabers - ( New Window )
I was there yesterday. Nabers was open all of the time. Yes, the OL was pathetic and he often had little time, but DJ is a single read and dump off quarterback. He is a "dumb terminal robot" executing a precise Daboll algorithm. Nothing more.
Naber's brute honesty could not be more refreshing in the midst of the gaslighting nonsense coming from the front office and coaching staff.
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Right Nabers - ( New Window )
I was there yesterday. Nabers was open all of the time. Yes, the OL was pathetic and he often had little time, but DJ is a single read and dump off quarterback. He is a "dumb terminal robot" executing a precise Daboll algorithm. Nothing more.
Naber's brute honesty could not be more refreshing in the midst of the gaslighting nonsense coming from the front office and coaching staff.
Mark Sanchez was really laying into the "Jones is not the problem" narrative yesterday by repeatedly saying nobody was open. He even did it on a replay where Nabers clearly found an open spot in the zone.
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In comment 16655430 BestFeature said:
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I will still say that the draft day uproar over the pick at the time was so over the top. I wanted him to prove his haters wrong and for a long time thought it was Judge and Garrett too. The last two seasons and especially this season shows if there is a preponderance of evidence that you suck over years, then you probably suck.
Jones has been more successful than many 1st round qb picks. He landed a huge 2nd contract, won a playoff game and has played 6 years in the league. His career isn’t over, he’ll be a backup (or maybe starter) somewhere else. He proved his draft day haters wrong.
"He proved his draft day haters wrong."
Oh, so you're one of ones calling critics of Jones "haters."
Nice of you to show up finally!
He's a s**t quarterback. Use whatever terminology you want, he hasn't proved those who said he was overdrafted wrong. He's completely vindicated his critics.
Anyway, have a nice retirement, Mr. Gettleman.
I have to clarify - I hated the Jones pick. I thought it was a reach and I was ready to move on from him by year 3. I was a hater. However, in my view, he proved me wrong in 2022. I'm just saying to BestFeature, not feel bad for DJ.
He's been a way better pick than Josh Rosen, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, etc.
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In comment 16655944 ajr2456 said:
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Right Nabers - ( New Window )
I was there yesterday. Nabers was open all of the time. Yes, the OL was pathetic and he often had little time, but DJ is a single read and dump off quarterback. He is a "dumb terminal robot" executing a precise Daboll algorithm. Nothing more.
Naber's brute honesty could not be more refreshing in the midst of the gaslighting nonsense coming from the front office and coaching staff.
. Another of Jones’ deficiencies is his slow wind up speed. When he senses the pressure, he can’t flick it out fast enough to negate the pass rush. I think. that’s one scouting lesson that needs to be learned from this debacle. Look for the Rogers-like flick.
It's not like we didn't know this shit when he was drafted. For a long while we've heard that Jones "can make all the throws" but it takes him forever to release the ball because he's got to wind up and crow hop into everything like he's trying to throw out a runner at 3rd from the right field corner.
Has he?
I assume we can all agree that the best outcome from a premium QB draft selection is that you land an elite franchise QB who elevates your franchise for a decade or more. Would anyone dispute that?
Here's the more controversial take - the next best outcome (IMO) from a premium QB draft selection is to fail so quickly and so loudly that there's no disputing that the pick is a bust.
The worst outcome (IMO) is to draft a QB who repeatedly shows just enough to allow those who really, really, really want to believe in that QB to have sufficient glimpses of what could be with a tweak here or an upgrade there, and keep talking themselves into that QB for years.
If we had taken any of the three QBs you listed, I feel pretty confident that the Giants would have at least drafted some other QB since then. If you can't win big, you're better off failing fast (and badly) rather than bleeding out over a decade by way of a thousand papercuts.
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In comment 16655432 monstercoo said:
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In comment 16655430 BestFeature said:
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I will still say that the draft day uproar over the pick at the time was so over the top. I wanted him to prove his haters wrong and for a long time thought it was Judge and Garrett too. The last two seasons and especially this season shows if there is a preponderance of evidence that you suck over years, then you probably suck.
Jones has been more successful than many 1st round qb picks. He landed a huge 2nd contract, won a playoff game and has played 6 years in the league. His career isn’t over, he’ll be a backup (or maybe starter) somewhere else. He proved his draft day haters wrong.
"He proved his draft day haters wrong."
Oh, so you're one of ones calling critics of Jones "haters."
Nice of you to show up finally!
He's a s**t quarterback. Use whatever terminology you want, he hasn't proved those who said he was overdrafted wrong. He's completely vindicated his critics.
Anyway, have a nice retirement, Mr. Gettleman.
I have to clarify - I hated the Jones pick. I thought it was a reach and I was ready to move on from him by year 3. I was a hater. However, in my view, he proved me wrong in 2022. I'm just saying to BestFeature, not feel bad for DJ.
He's been a way better pick than Josh Rosen, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, etc.
I don't want to be in the defending Jones business, but that tweet doesn't prove the point.
On the first clip, it's close, but it looks like Slayton is his read. It seems that the actual Jones' mistake was not throwing with anticipation to Slayton.
On the second clip, WDR was clearly his first read and it was in fact open.
On the third clip, Jones is hit about 4 yards before Nabers reaches. Maybe Jones could have read the safety a little better and thrown with anticipation
To still be in the league leaders in turnovers despite that is incredible.
He got black-listed by the NFL for his behavior here, it is what it is. But he is a better football coach than Brian Daboll and the results here support that.
At first I thought Wink was at fault, but as things have developed, I'm not sure anymore. I know this:
- Daboll convinced Kafka to hang on, then undercut him by taking playcalling away.
- Daboll's demeanor, for whatever reason, has drastically changed this season.
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He's been a way better pick than Josh Rosen, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, etc.
Has he?
I assume we can all agree that the best outcome from a premium QB draft selection is that you land an elite franchise QB who elevates your franchise for a decade or more. Would anyone dispute that?
Here's the more controversial take - the next best outcome (IMO) from a premium QB draft selection is to fail so quickly and so loudly that there's no disputing that the pick is a bust.
The worst outcome (IMO) is to draft a QB who repeatedly shows just enough to allow those who really, really, really want to believe in that QB to have sufficient glimpses of what could be with a tweak here or an upgrade there, and keep talking themselves into that QB for years.
If we had taken any of the three QBs you listed, I feel pretty confident that the Giants would have at least drafted some other QB since then. If you can't win big, you're better off failing fast (and badly) rather than bleeding out over a decade by way of a thousand papercuts.
This is not controversial
He's been a way better pick than Josh Rosen, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, etc.
Sure, but those are disaster picks. If he was those players, he would have been gone 3 years ago. It's worse that he lives on the line of mediocre because that's what's been giving him six years of excuses. He's just good enough that you think you can coach him to success.
That's what gets coaches fire.
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In comment 16656239 monstercoo said:
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He's been a way better pick than Josh Rosen, Zach Wilson, Trey Lance, etc.
Has he?
I assume we can all agree that the best outcome from a premium QB draft selection is that you land an elite franchise QB who elevates your franchise for a decade or more. Would anyone dispute that?
Here's the more controversial take - the next best outcome (IMO) from a premium QB draft selection is to fail so quickly and so loudly that there's no disputing that the pick is a bust.
The worst outcome (IMO) is to draft a QB who repeatedly shows just enough to allow those who really, really, really want to believe in that QB to have sufficient glimpses of what could be with a tweak here or an upgrade there, and keep talking themselves into that QB for years.
If we had taken any of the three QBs you listed, I feel pretty confident that the Giants would have at least drafted some other QB since then. If you can't win big, you're better off failing fast (and badly) rather than bleeding out over a decade by way of a thousand papercuts.
This is not controversial
It probably is to the poster who thinks the current DJ scenario is somehow a better outcome than any of the outright busts he listed instead.