for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

The worst thing is as bad as its been the Giants pick 9th

pjcas18 : 10/21/2024 8:08 am
right now according to tankathon.

(pending Ray in Arlington official thread, - speaking of Ray where is he? I expected to see him before Halloween but really only because as Giants fans meaningful November football means losing to get a better pick most of the time the past decade plus).

I'm not a fan of tanking (and I don't think it's really all that controllable). But I am someone who wants to eliminate all excuses.

Sometimes you need to hit the absolute bottom of rock bottom to fix it. I'm not saying only the top QB picked can fix things, and these issues go beyond QB. But they do start there.
...  
26.2 : 10/21/2024 8:17 am : link
We don't need to tank. We are bad enough and will end up with high draft pick again. The problem is, there are a lot of other bad teams that will lose a lot of games.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/21/2024 8:20 am : link
Hard to believe there are 8 teams worse than us.
You don’t need to be picking top 3  
Mike from Ohio : 10/21/2024 8:27 am : link
To get a QB you can win with. It certainly helps, but it isn’t necessary.

The underlying problem is that the Giants view the QB position like it is still 1980. They draft a guy, and the job is his regardless of performance because he is “The QB of the New York Giants.” This is why they use first round picks on QBs so rarely, and why they don’t draft developmental guys. In their view, the absolute worst thing in football is not being a consistent basement dweller, but having a QB controversy.

This team has to be looking to upgrade the QB position. That does not mean falling in love with a guy like Beck or Ward and then either mortgaging the future to get him, or passing on it for another year. If Daboll is retained he needs to do what he was brought here to do - develop a QB. If there is only one or two guys each year he can turn into a functional NFL QB, why do we need him?

I don’t care if they are picking 1st, 3rd, 9th or 15th - they need to seriously consider the QBs they can get and who they can develop. Maybe that means passing on a QB in round 1, but it absolutely is not what they have done since 2019 which is “Don’t draft a QB because it may upset our rightful QB.”
Of course  
pjcas18 : 10/21/2024 8:30 am : link
you don't *need* to pick 1 to get the best QB - it's been well chronicled on here with Mahomes, Allen, Stroud, etc just in the past 7 years. I bet there are even more QB's - maybe Daniels winds up better than Williams. Maybe Penix is the best in the class. Not my point.

my point is I don't want to hear "we picked 4th in a 3 QB draft" (for example) - to remove any whining and excuses, if you pick 1, it's all 100% on you.

You point is well taken  
Chris684 : 10/21/2024 8:41 am : link
But we have a larger issue don’t we? As bad as this season has very predictably started out, I fail to see anything from this head coach that resembles urgency. Everything still feels like status quo around NYG which means that instead of worrying about our draft slot and the QB position, we may well be looking at year 4 of going backwards with Schoen and Daboll looking to bring in some other position with a top 10 pick.
Who cares where they pick?  
Sean : 10/21/2024 8:49 am : link
Hire a regime who knows what they are doing. That's what matters.
Lot of bad football right now out there  
Sammo85 : 10/21/2024 8:54 am : link
Lot of teams looking dead in water already which speaks a bit to the NFL product quality at large/risks it incurs on itself.

See my 7:05am  
M.S. : 10/21/2024 8:58 am : link
post.
Link - ( New Window )
I'm not assuming  
pjcas18 : 10/21/2024 8:59 am : link
Schoen/Daboll are part of the go-forward plan.

Maybe they are, maybe they're not, but whoever is if they pick 1 have no excuses.

In fact, if the Giants have the #1 pick might be better to clean house than if they don't.

Bring in a new GM - who brings in "his" coach, and they get "their QB" and then the ledger is wiped clean no "We're still cleaning up Gettleman's messes" 3 years later from the fans or media. it shouldn't take this long in the NFL to turn around the team - but it does take a good QB decision, but that's not the only factor even if its the most important.
RE: I'm not assuming  
M.S. : 10/21/2024 9:10 am : link
In comment 16655556 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
Schoen/Daboll are part of the go-forward plan.

Maybe they are, maybe they're not, but whoever is if they pick 1 have no excuses.

In fact, if the Giants have the #1 pick might be better to clean house than if they don't.

Bring in a new GM - who brings in "his" coach, and they get "their QB" and then the ledger is wiped clean no "We're still cleaning up Gettleman's messes" 3 years later from the fans or media. it shouldn't take this long in the NFL to turn around the team - but it does take a good QB decision, but that's not the only factor even if its the most important.

My preference is to sweep out Schoen and Daboll. But how does a new regime pick its future franchise QB when they haven't been out in the field like Joe Schoen and his crew? Fire Schoen and keep his crew?
I guess you missed  
cokeduplt : 10/21/2024 9:19 am : link
Last years draft because if it wasn’t for Tommy cutlets mania that some of you loved so much we would’ve picked top3 and we’d have either Daniels or Maye who both look pretty good right now. Instead we are stuck with this garbage with no end in sight.
RE: I guess you missed  
pjcas18 : 10/21/2024 9:27 am : link
In comment 16655587 cokeduplt said:
Quote:
Last years draft because if it wasn’t for Tommy cutlets mania that some of you loved so much we would’ve picked top3 and we’d have either Daniels or Maye who both look pretty good right now. Instead we are stuck with this garbage with no end in sight.


WTF are you talking about? I missed last years draft? it's almost exactly why I'm saying they need to pick #1.

Way too early to start comparing draft position  
UberAlias : 10/21/2024 9:29 am : link
If they keep losing, they'll have a high draft pick. And if they keep Jones in there, it's a lock.
They’ll end up higher  
jeff57 : 10/21/2024 9:37 am : link
Or lower, depending on your viewpoint. Patriots and Panthers are definitely worse. Titans and Browns probably. So 4-6.
There’s 10 games left  
JoeyBigBlue : 10/21/2024 9:42 am : link
They will end up a lot higher.
I don't care about draft slot  
Go Terps : 10/21/2024 10:56 am : link
I want losses because I want a new GM and head coach. The quarterback isn't the only problem with this team.
The Giants picking 9th?  
nochance : 10/21/2024 11:04 am : link
Thats as of today. With the shape of the team where do you think we will be picking at the end of the season? I'd say top 5
The Giants have 2 wins  
arniefez : 10/22/2024 10:44 am : link
Hopefully they'll be picking a lot higher than 9th when the season ends.

The only game they have a chance to be favored in for the rest of the season is the Panther game. The last game of the year is the Eagles. If the Eagles don't need to win that game it would be in character for both the Eagles and the Giants for the Eagles to lay down and the Giants to play it like a playoff game.

If you're a Giants fan you should understand by now that our best chance to ever root for a competitive team again is for them to lose every remaining game this year. The only things that the Mara's respond to are an empty stadium, an angry fan base and most importantly bad press. John Mara was questioned more than he could handle about his brother and nephew when Schoen and Daboll were hired. It's going to happen again. He won't like it.

The GM and HC have not earned a 4th year. They both deserve to be fired.

Joe Schoen's drafts have been terrible. I won't go through all of his picks but the 3 OLs he drafted in top 3 rounds are all complete busts. Kayvon is JAG. Banks has on field character issues. Robinson was way over drafted. There's not enough talent on this team. The Giants don't have one legit NFL DT on their roster except Dexter. Unacceptable after 3 years. No return for letting Barkley and McKinney leave as FAs. And that QB contract without a competent backup enough said. There is no case to let him continue to build the roster.

Brian Daboll is a bad HC. His biggest offense is the lack of development of the players his GM partner has drafted. He has given up on Evan Neal, Daniel Bellinger and Jalin Hyatt. He took over the play calling this year and his plan has been to throw short to the same two receivers over and over regardless of what the opposing defense is doing. Maybe it's his lack of confidence in the QB who the entire league has had figured out since mid 2022. It doesn't matter at this point. He has shown nothing in his three years to make anyone think he's the long term answer at HC.

Starting over again is exhausting as a fan but the Giants can't run it back with a GM and HC that can't win division games. they're 4-10-1 vs the NFC East 0-3 this year.

0-5 vs Dallas next game on Thanksgiving in Dallas will make it 0-6.

1-4 vs the Eagles the one win was the last game of last year that the Eagles tanked by resting their starters for the playoffs. Next game in Philadelphia last game of this season. A game the Giants will probably need to lose and the Eagles will probably try to let them win.

3-1-1 vs the Commanders 0-1 vs Jayden Daniels. Next game in two week at Met Life. Daniels is week to week with a rib injury. Hopefully he can play. The Giants don't need any meaningless cheap wins.
First A  
Blueworm : 10/22/2024 11:11 am : link
Then B

This is sequential.

Worry about the performance now.
Draft after the season.

RE: First A  
pjcas18 : 10/22/2024 11:16 am : link
In comment 16657251 Blueworm said:
Quote:
Then B

This is sequential.

Worry about the performance now.
Draft after the season.


Seriously?

I'm a human being with a functioning brain, I can, in fact, watch the performance now and (here comes the shock to you) also pay attention to and be aware of 2025 draft position. My brain doesn't just work based on sequential actions like I guess yours does.

some other members of my species are able to do this too.

I guess we're pretty advanced.
Back to the Corner