Clip linked below. Blames the decision to let Barkley walk on Schoen.
He believes both Mara & Daboll wanted Barkley back. He implies Schoen not knowing Philly wanted Barkley is bad when the whole league thought they did. Link - ( New Window )
How Schoen handled Barkley is a great example he's not qualified for the job.
Well to be fair, negotiating with Barkley took years off his life. Nobody had told him before accepting the job that you don't just give all the players a COLA each year and they are happy to get it.
Someone should have made that clear up front so he could have done something less stressful like driving an Uber.
Interesting that BB said Daboll wanted Barkley back,
But, I still don't think it was necessarily the wrong move. The real mistake was choosing Jones over Barkley after 2022. Equally as bad was not trading Barkley at the deadline last year. Had they done that, maybe they could have drafted Nabers and a QB.
is how many bought that schoen was handling it well the whole time. passing on the extension in July 2023 while already being on the hook for $10m of the tag was beyond moronic. though i guess he looked even more moronic on HK when he doubted anyone would pay Barkley.
was obviously Schoen. If it was up to Mara he'd be on a 4 year contract at 1 of the highest RB salaries in the league.
If it was up to Daboll, you do what you can to win now. That's the perspective of a coach. Especially one who works for a CEO who fires his coach every 2 years.
The fucking sin was drafting Barkley in the first place
are much better with the current RBs at the current price vs. Barkeley at his current price.
Sure there are other bad personnel decisions, but letting SB walk instead of paying him his current salary is not one of them. Stinks that he went to Philly, but there's nothing the Giants could have done about that (even if they did trade him a few years ago).
their record would be any different if Barkley was still here.
Right. Or that he would look the way he looked yesterday as as an offensive piece on THIS team. We already know what that looked like, and it sure as hell wasn't 170+ yards, 2 TD's and an effective presence in the passing game in 3 quarters of play.
RE: The fucking sin was drafting Barkley in the first place
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
This. To me, watching Hard Knocks, it felt like Schoen made up his mind with Barkley after the franchise tag. I can only imagine not trading him mid-season was a Mara mandate..but all three of Schoen, Daboll and Mara have been proven to be knuckleheads so it doesn't matter who was really at fault anymore..
This organization drafts toys when they have been shit at quarterback and offensive line for a decade.
100% true
100% agree x 2
I do not understand the hand-wringing over Barkley. It sucks he had a big day against us - as it would be when any former player does - but it would have been a much bigger sin signing SB to a big contract.
as noted, the real mistake was taking him at #2 in the first place.
we got much bigger problems than worrying about Barkley in Philly.
RE: RE: So the Giants should have retained Barkley just to block the Eagles?
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
....and that, I can almost guarantee, was a John Mara decision. He did not want to gut the team down to the studs giving them no hope to win late in the season.
I said it several times here! Schoen is not ready for the big leagues. They made a mistake hiring him! In the hard knocks episodes you can tell that Mara was wanting to keep Barkley! He looked nervous as to the possibility of them losing him. It was a terrible move by Schoen! This is proof he doesn’t belong.
RE: Interesting that BB said Daboll wanted Barkley back,
I said it several times here! Schoen is not ready for the big leagues. They made a mistake hiring him! In the hard knocks episodes you can tell that Mara was wanting to keep Barkley! He looked nervous as to the possibility of them losing him. It was a terrible move by Schoen! This is proof he doesn’t belong.
So you are saying we should have kept Barkley?
I think the overwhelming consensus in the off season that it was the right move to let him go and I still feel that way
RE: Belichick's personnel decisions his last 10+ years in NE were awful
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
No, The Giants should have retained Barkley because since he got here he was the best offensive player on this team. Its a shame for him that he's wasted his career on a shit team, but since he was willing to continue to do so, we should have let him.
Where the Giants wound up was a sour spot, and IMO it's because of Mara's influence. The Giants could have given Barkley an Eagles-type contract at the same cap hit as what they gave Singletary, as Eric from LI has argued on here before. That (probably) would have been Mara's preference.
As a position value guy, Schoen probably would have preferred trading Barkley last year and getting a mid-round pick. But Mara wouldn't have been on board.
So Schoen then tries to assert his preference on position value in the offseason, even though it's arguable that they were better off just giving Barkley what he wanted, in terms of the team's best interests.
So they wound up in a sour spot--Schoen's preference but less value recouped.
This is why this type of shared management structure doesn't work. Strategic vision needs to drive day-to-day decisions all year long. It didn't in this case.
RE: RE: So the Giants should have retained Barkley just to block the Eagles?
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
This is spot on. Then they could have made sure they wouldn't be embarrassed by him twice a year and get something for him. As far as Belichick, please stop. He s the guy that let Brady walk and get a Super Bowl for Tampa.
does not bother me - he was useless to the Giants and the Giants have managed to have a reasonable running game without him - love the new guy Tracey a lot and he is certainly capable of breaking away a run
the real problem is with Jones - keeping him -- playing him -- being boxed in with him -- that is the move that is worthy of criticism - not that they signed Jones at Barkley's expense
Why is there never a mention that Barkley turned down a NYG contract
And a bigger contract than he signed with Philly for. That doesn’t matter now that it’s convenient to blame this on Schoen. We can all just pretend that didn’t happen.
When some tells you to go out and get a deal and maybe we'll match it that's very insulting. Like you're not even making an offer on a contract and you want.a free look on matching. Dick move by Shoen. I can see why he left. And also who wants to be on a losing team their whole career. Barclay knows Jones is garbage.
RE: RE: So the Giants should have retained Barkley just to block the Eagles?
Where the Giants wound up was a sour spot, and IMO it's because of Mara's influence. The Giants could have given Barkley an Eagles-type contract at the same cap hit as what they gave Singletary, as Eric from LI has argued on here before. That (probably) would have been Mara's preference.
As a position value guy, Schoen probably would have preferred trading Barkley last year and getting a mid-round pick. But Mara wouldn't have been on board.
So Schoen then tries to assert his preference on position value in the offseason, even though it's arguable that they were better off just giving Barkley what he wanted, in terms of the team's best interests.
So they wound up in a sour spot--Schoen's preference but less value recouped.
This is why this type of shared management structure doesn't work. Strategic vision needs to drive day-to-day decisions all year long. It didn't in this case.
the laughing stock of the NFL.
They're wrong, but they can feel like they're right, because we're so awful.
What's worrying is the Belichick is so openly derisive about Schoen. Is Belichick still close to Mara or not? Do we read anything into that?
the laughing stock of the NFL.
They're wrong, but they can feel like they're right, because we're so awful.
What's worrying is the Belichick is so openly derisive about Schoen. Is Belichick still close to Mara or not? Do we read anything into that?
Everything I've read is that they have not been as close since the Joe Judge atrocity because that was Belichick's recommendation to Mara for head coach.
RE: Why is there never a mention that Barkley turned down a NYG contract
And a bigger contract than he signed with Philly for. That doesn’t matter now that it’s convenient to blame this on Schoen. We can all just pretend that didn’t happen.
BB sending a message to Mara and taking care of one of his own. BB had Daboll as the WR coach in his first stint. After bombing out three times as OC he returned as TE coach until Saban restarted his OC career as Co-OC.
Where the Giants wound up was a sour spot, and IMO it's because of Mara's influence. The Giants could have given Barkley an Eagles-type contract at the same cap hit as what they gave Singletary, as Eric from LI has argued on here before. That (probably) would have been Mara's preference.
As a position value guy, Schoen probably would have preferred trading Barkley last year and getting a mid-round pick. But Mara wouldn't have been on board.
So Schoen then tries to assert his preference on position value in the offseason, even though it's arguable that they were better off just giving Barkley what he wanted, in terms of the team's best interests.
So they wound up in a sour spot--Schoen's preference but less value recouped.
This is why this type of shared management structure doesn't work. Strategic vision needs to drive day-to-day decisions all year long. It didn't in this case.
100%.
And Schoen's cries for help on Hard Knocks plus these weekly hostage video press conferences from Daboll are only going to kill our candidate pool when we inevitably go looking for their replacements. Yes, people want to become GM and head coach, but they want that with the premise that they'll be able to succeed and keep the job.
Link - ( New Window )
Well to be fair, negotiating with Barkley took years off his life. Nobody had told him before accepting the job that you don't just give all the players a COLA each year and they are happy to get it.
Someone should have made that clear up front so he could have done something less stressful like driving an Uber.
Because it shows how off we are on player evaluations
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
He will be your next GM/Head coach.
If it was up to Daboll, you do what you can to win now. That's the perspective of a coach. Especially one who works for a CEO who fires his coach every 2 years.
Sure there are other bad personnel decisions, but letting SB walk instead of paying him his current salary is not one of them. Stinks that he went to Philly, but there's nothing the Giants could have done about that (even if they did trade him a few years ago).
Where Joe loses me is going into this season with a QB depth chart of Jones-Lock-DeVito. That’s just UFB.
Right. Or that he would look the way he looked yesterday as as an offensive piece on THIS team. We already know what that looked like, and it sure as hell wasn't 170+ yards, 2 TD's and an effective presence in the passing game in 3 quarters of play.
100% true
Quote:
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
This. To me, watching Hard Knocks, it felt like Schoen made up his mind with Barkley after the franchise tag. I can only imagine not trading him mid-season was a Mara mandate..but all three of Schoen, Daboll and Mara have been proven to be knuckleheads so it doesn't matter who was really at fault anymore..
Quote:
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
100% This!!! Mara emotion is why he wasnt traded.
He will be your next GM/Head coach.
This is a great observation
He will be your next GM/Head coach.
Sweet, we'll be as good as the post-Brady Patriots were!
Quote:
This organization drafts toys when they have been shit at quarterback and offensive line for a decade.
100% true
100% agree x 2
I do not understand the hand-wringing over Barkley. It sucks he had a big day against us - as it would be when any former player does - but it would have been a much bigger sin signing SB to a big contract.
as noted, the real mistake was taking him at #2 in the first place.
we got much bigger problems than worrying about Barkley in Philly.
Quote:
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
....and that, I can almost guarantee, was a John Mara decision. He did not want to gut the team down to the studs giving them no hope to win late in the season.
Can't we recognize he's a good player but not what we need here at the moment?
Two things can be true.
This I 100% agree with you on. This was a horrible choice..
That's all of us Bill.
Ehhhh, they're not tight enough for Belichick to have recognized which Brian he was in his phone a few years ago.
So you are saying we should have kept Barkley?
I think the overwhelming consensus in the off season that it was the right move to let him go and I still feel that way
Worse than even some of that was his decision to make Matt Patricia and Joe Judge offensive coordinators!
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
As a position value guy, Schoen probably would have preferred trading Barkley last year and getting a mid-round pick. But Mara wouldn't have been on board.
So Schoen then tries to assert his preference on position value in the offseason, even though it's arguable that they were better off just giving Barkley what he wanted, in terms of the team's best interests.
So they wound up in a sour spot--Schoen's preference but less value recouped.
This is why this type of shared management structure doesn't work. Strategic vision needs to drive day-to-day decisions all year long. It didn't in this case.
Quote:
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
the real problem is with Jones - keeping him -- playing him -- being boxed in with him -- that is the move that is worthy of criticism - not that they signed Jones at Barkley's expense
Quote:
What BB is saying doesn't make sense. Probably the one smart move the Giants made was not retaining him.
This is still a two win team with Barkley on the roster.
The sin was not trading Barkley when they could have.
For what? And when? Following 2020 or 2021 when he was damaged goods? Following 2022 when he was unsigned and coming off a team mvp performance?
The sin was the half assed FT they used on Barkley. He was a lock to leave once that tag was issued.
The other fail was failing to recognize an injured player can bounce back and stop getting hurt. BBI was wrong.
The Giants should have fucking signed him to a 3 year deal following 2022. Period.
The Giants should have fucking signed him to a 3 year deal following 2022. Period.
Why? What would have been the purpose of that?
As a position value guy, Schoen probably would have preferred trading Barkley last year and getting a mid-round pick. But Mara wouldn't have been on board.
So Schoen then tries to assert his preference on position value in the offseason, even though it's arguable that they were better off just giving Barkley what he wanted, in terms of the team's best interests.
So they wound up in a sour spot--Schoen's preference but less value recouped.
This is why this type of shared management structure doesn't work. Strategic vision needs to drive day-to-day decisions all year long. It didn't in this case.
+1
They're wrong, but they can feel like they're right, because we're so awful.
What's worrying is the Belichick is so openly derisive about Schoen. Is Belichick still close to Mara or not? Do we read anything into that?
They're wrong, but they can feel like they're right, because we're so awful.
What's worrying is the Belichick is so openly derisive about Schoen. Is Belichick still close to Mara or not? Do we read anything into that?
Everything I've read is that they have not been as close since the Joe Judge atrocity because that was Belichick's recommendation to Mara for head coach.
Exactly
As a position value guy, Schoen probably would have preferred trading Barkley last year and getting a mid-round pick. But Mara wouldn't have been on board.
So Schoen then tries to assert his preference on position value in the offseason, even though it's arguable that they were better off just giving Barkley what he wanted, in terms of the team's best interests.
So they wound up in a sour spot--Schoen's preference but less value recouped.
This is why this type of shared management structure doesn't work. Strategic vision needs to drive day-to-day decisions all year long. It didn't in this case.
100%.
And Schoen's cries for help on Hard Knocks plus these weekly hostage video press conferences from Daboll are only going to kill our candidate pool when we inevitably go looking for their replacements. Yes, people want to become GM and head coach, but they want that with the premise that they'll be able to succeed and keep the job.