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David Syvertsen @Ourlads_Sy I’m a hard ABSOLUTELY NO on any “Fire Schoen” talk for the Giants. I actually have more confidence in this front office than I’ve had in a decade. The sure thing that needs to be replaced is the QB The gray area is the coaching staff That’s where it stands, period. |
This draft class looking so promising might be the saving grace for Schoen.
I can't reconcile it.
This epic blowback and it is epic as its not normal from the kind of reaction to a QB in G1 of a season comes from everyone recognizing the problem
He needed some form of hope at the QB when Jones failed
Thats why we are where are right now in full fledged fan revolt. Its Schoens fault . Its his job.
He needed an alternative at QB that provided hope. He neglected his most basic responsibility and the franchise is suffering and its only the beginning
But...presuming the Giants get destroyed by the Steelers, combined with another awful performance by Jones, would start the ball rolling. Add an embarrassing potential loss to the Panthers, and blow outs by the Commanders, Bucs and Cowboys, and we may be seeing a whole different story.
If Jones has more disaster games against Pittsburgh and the Commanders, Daboll has to sit him, or everyone will turn against the FO.
If we don't score and we don't win, what difference does it make if Schoen has made our cap position healthier? BFD.
Schoen has had three full drafts. And thus far the only potential superstar is Nabers. Everyone else? Who the hell knows at this point.
At least the dunce Gettleman produced two superstar players in Sexy and Thomas.
That is on Schoen. You can say Mara has a hand in it....but to me this is Schoen.
& I'm sick of 'Well, he tried to trade up for Drake.' Enough of that BS. I'm starting to come around to the thought that that was just window dressing to appease a fan base that is fed up with Jones in season six, as if they were actually trying to move heaven & earth to get a QB. And hey, if you actually tried to get Maye, but NE wasn't willing to play ball...there are other routes to get a QB, hell even a developmental one. Instead we sign Lock, who was no threat to challenge Jones for the job. Jones has been given a scholarship. Simple as that. Then I have to read/listen about how Joe had to have a convo with Daniel about how it might be uncomfortable seeing guys like Daniels/Maye in the building. Is Daniel that sensitive? It's a fucking business.
Joe & Daboll can both go in my opinion. This is year three & we're regressing.
Every time you fire a GM you are going back a step.
The new GM will want to create the team in his image.
This means overhauling the roster and starting over.
This is insanity.
If you think you are frustrated now, it can and will get a lot worse than it is now.
Let Schoen continue to build the roster and bring in a new QB.
The Giants have turned over the roster.
They have the youngest starting players. There are (5) starters and a total of (8) rookies or first-year players on the active roster.
The defense is a couple of players away from becoming dominant.
The offense needs a QB, WR, and OL.
Let's see how this team performs with a quality QB.
Schoen has done both good and bad in my view. I’d give him more time to build the roster and get the QB. If he’s gone too I won’t lose sleep over it, but think it’s a step back short term to reset the GM position. A coach and a QB and we have a pretty good team.
Perhaps he will join the thread and give more details to his thought process.
After last season did the Giants look to reload or rebuild? The looked this year as a rebuild, correct? Yet the prior year what was done? We didn't change the OL much, did we? So shouldn't JS "get credit" for assembling one of the worst OL's in sports NFL History in this modern history? How can it be THAT bad if they must've known it wasn't even good in 2022? So a bench wasn't built. Whose fault is that?
So after 2022 they expected to be a good team. Yet 1 year they realize the team was no good but didn’t know before? They were THAT confident in their talent? Whose fault is it for blundering on the QB and blundering on the TE and putting forth a historically bad OL that you only realize these parts are bad one year later in which the prior year you were sold they were good?. That's half the team the GM was clueless on. He’s supposed to get points for not understanding the quality of his team?
Now there is also questions about the Coach? Well who hired the coach? So, we're supposed to ignore the poor QB Decision, the poor OL decisions, the poor TE decision, and the sub-par coaching decision?
I'm not saying dump him as of this moment. More time to see it all. But right now imo JS appears to be very incompetent. For example, the OL has been pretty good overall before our terrific Left Tackle A Thomas, injury. If this OL sinks to being subpar or bad this would be THREE YEARS that JS hasn't gotten the job done on a position so obvious that it needed help.
So, I'm not saying "dump him" yet, but if this OL ends up being subpar - not even being average yet again- how can we say this dude is competent? Anyone should be able to understand you have a guy like Jones, or next tear a rookie QB, you need to get him a good OL. It's the most important position on the field, and so far what has our GM accomplished? oh yeah he can "brag" the OL is better than last year.
& I'm sick of 'Well, he tried to trade up for Drake.' Enough of that BS. I'm starting to come around to the thought that that was just window dressing to appease a fan base that is fed up with Jones in season six, as if they were actually trying to move heaven & earth to get a QB. And hey, if you actually tried to get Maye, but NE wasn't willing to play ball...there are other routes to get a QB, hell even a developmental one. Instead we sign Lock, who was no threat to challenge Jones for the job. Jones has been given a scholarship. Simple as that. Then I have to read/listen about how Joe had to have a convo with Daniel about how it might be uncomfortable seeing guys like Daniels/Maye in the building. Is Daniel that sensitive? It's a fucking business.
Joe & Daboll can both go in my opinion. This is year three & we're regressing.
It struck me out of nowhere today that in 1/3 of the time Jones has been with the Giants, the Steelers drafted Kenny Pickett in the 1st round, traded him with value, signed a washed up HOF QB who is still 10x’s the QB Jones will ever be on his best day, and traded for a former first round QB to hedge their bet on said washed up HOF’er.
And the Joe Scheon led NYG has basically done Jack Squat on the QB position.
And Mara ultimately gets blamed for everything, which is even more of a useless exercise, because unlike everyone else in the building, he's not even theoretically going anywhere.
Anyway, I agree with Sy that Schoen's done a good enough job to justify his continued employment. But the major caveat here is that, if this team can't crack five wins this season, all bets are off.
Yes, everyone in 1925 Giants Way is denying this, but we saw what happened with Mara hiring only Coaches and GM's that would keep Eli and now Jones before Schoen. Does anyone think that Mara has changed his stripes?
John Mara isn't blind. He's seeing the same QB we see. He has to know Jones isn't the answer. I doubt that Daboll would be still starting Jones if he had a free hand.
It also may explain why this year’s draft was significantly better than the last 2.
I’d still like to know what the actual plan for a QB is. Unless this is a legit tank and they don’t want to admit it, not at least getting competition for Jones is completely asinine.
Yes, everyone in 1925 Giants Way is denying this, but we saw what happened with Mara hiring only Coaches and GM's that would keep Eli and now Jones before Schoen. Does anyone think that Mara has changed his stripes?
John Mara isn't blind. He's seeing the same QB we see. He has to know Jones isn't the answer. I doubt that Daboll would be still starting Jones if he had a free hand.
No Offense by imo your post is all about excuse-making.
Yes, everyone in 1925 Giants Way is denying this, but we saw what happened with Mara hiring only Coaches and GM's that would keep Eli and now Jones before Schoen. Does anyone think that Mara has changed his stripes?
We saw it in Hard Knocks - John Mara standing in Schoen's office, telling him how he wouldn't be able to sleep if Saquon wound up in Philly. Schoen let him walk anyway. He had a plan, and he wasn't going to let the owner's sleep cycle dictate his gameplan. And that was coming off a 6-11 season.
Now think back to the end of the 2022 season. We just finished going 9-7 and winning a road playoff game, in Schoen's first season. If there was every any conflict between what the owner wanted and what the GM wanted, Schoen had all the leverage he needed to insist on His Way.
If Schoen was willing to go against Mara after 2023, then it's only fair to assume he'd have been willing to do so after 2022. The fact that he didn't - and the fact that both he and Daboll gave a full-throated endorsement of Daniel Jones in their first post-season press conference after getting bounced from the playoffs, tells me that Schoen wanted Jones back irrespective of what Mara wanted.
That being said if the Schoen is fired I would be for promoting Brandon Brown.
The Giants don't have an offense. That's sort of a big deal.
I'll repeat: the Giants would be in a better situation if they entered 2025 as an expansion team.
Daboll looks to be the scapegoat especially if they continue to spiral downward. He really needs 6-7 wins to save his job.
If you’re keeping Schoen then you want him here long term. If you keep Dabs then you’re keeping him at least 2-3 years to develop the new QB.
Has Schoen done enough to warrant drafting the next QB and then committing to him for the next 3-4 years? I’m not so sure. That’s the big question.
Like BW said, the 2 best players on the team were drafted by DG. Nabers does look like a stud I think this draft looks pretty good. But a lot of his draft pick leave a lot to be desired. The OL still leaves a lot to be desired. He’s done a terrible job with the OL. So I have mixed feelings about him and Daboll. I really liked them both but something is just off with this team. It’s beyond just the QB situation.
Just saying.
Joe Schoen failed to invest significant draft capital on defensive lineman.
Just saying.
Just saying.
Joe Schoen failed to invest significant draft capital on defensive lineman.
Just saying.
This means nothing of import.
You can just see the way team Mara was waxing poetic about Barkley that any change we see is looking turning an oil tanker.
I think they deserve to get their QB next year which will buy them two years. The worst thing to happen to this franchise in the past 4 years was the fools gold playoff run in 2022.
You are the GM and you have a very limited qb and no real back up to him.
In that case you build a run blocking o line and put a great back behind it and go play action and RPO.
Instead we build a pass blocking o line, let our star running back go and then have a coach that Schoen hired insist the best way to win is by throwing the ball first and often. I am sure Daboll was in on the decision on how the offense would be built.
So they are both incompetent.
We want to bench players such as Jones when they stink but somehow we want to keep a HC and GM who both stink
They built this Titanic knowing Jones was the iceberg. They both need to go down with the ship.
And we can watch Mara play music in his box as the ship sinks and the fans abandon the sinking ship. Because that is exactly what is going on with the Giants. My opinion of course.
Every time you fire a GM you are going back a step.
The new GM will want to create the team in his image.
This means overhauling the roster and starting over.
This is insanity.
If you think you are frustrated now, it can and will get a lot worse than it is now.
Let Schoen continue to build the roster and bring in a new QB.
The Giants have turned over the roster.
They have the youngest starting players. There are (5) starters and a total of (8) rookies or first-year players on the active roster.
The defense is a couple of players away from becoming dominant.
The offense needs a QB, WR, and OL.
Let's see how this team performs with a quality QB.
Agreed. I also really believe there was a ton of organizational rot that needed cleaning by Schoen re: scouting of both players and prospects.
Schoen is in his first GM job. I don't think he's done enough to be fired yet.
If Schoen is doing a good job building the roster over three years, and the team is still this putrid, how can you see the coaching staff as a gray area? Wouldn’t a coaching staff who has been blessed with some really good player acquisitions be expected to show progress?
I don’t see how anyone can think Schoen is doing a good job and Daboll and his staff may also be doing a good job, yet this is a team that isn’t competitive against the dregs of the league after three years.
Help me out.
There can be no half measures here. The absolute worst thing that can happen is Schoen scapegoating and firing Daboll and putting this franchise right back where it was in 2013 when Kevin Gilbride was blamed for Reese's mess, setting in motion the abyss the franchise finds itself in today.
The GM, HC and QB need to be fully aligned on the rebuild timeline or this insane decade will turn into another decade.
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Just saying.
Joe Schoen failed to invest significant draft capital on defensive lineman.
Just saying.
This means nothing of import.
Except it could get him fired. The Giants LOS play running the ball and stopping the run has descended to the bottom of the NFL.
Totally agree with your second thought. I much prefer the HC to pick his GM and have the GM report to him. I think this traditional GM > HC is ancient.
I hear you on the first point, too. Unfortunately, you can make a case they did select their QB with Jones. And Schoen doubled down on Jones with his window-shopping effort for a QB before the draft.
But I know what you mean in terms of actually drafting one.
So, Schoen should get at least six years...
If Schoen is doing a good job building the roster over three years, and the team is still this putrid, how can you see the coaching staff as a gray area? Wouldn’t a coaching staff who has been blessed with some really good player acquisitions be expected to show progress?
I don’t see how anyone can think Schoen is doing a good job and Daboll and his staff may also be doing a good job, yet this is a team that isn’t competitive against the dregs of the league after three years.
Help me out.
Don't want to speak for Sy, but I'm guessing his point is the team's performance is due to having a bad QB, and the corresponding trickle down effect. It makes everyone else look bad.