Many teams have traded numerous draft picks to acquire a quarterback, but these strategies often prove unsuccessful. It's generally more prudent to trade a smaller number of picks to move up in the draft after several non-quarterback prospects have been selected.
Panthers for Young
49ers for Lance
Jets for Darnold
Rams for Goff
Washington for RGIII
Atlants for Vick
Chargers for Leaf
Even the Giants for Eli which seems like a success story.. the other guy we would have drafted has 3 rings..
My point is don't go into the draft ready to unload future draft picks for a QB. If he falls to you or you have to give up a reasonable amount to move up to get him then do it.
Hence the Giants should really have a decent solutions in place prior to the draft. Meaning something like 2004 when we had Kurt/Collins in place. Cutting Jones and not getting anyone to replace Lock/Devito is not a good way to go into the draft. If a deal can be agreed upon with DJ something where he gets paid $10-12M next year which can help us out with the CAP next year would be ideal. DJ at $40M is bad.. DJ at $12M is actually a good choice so that we aren't desperate to get a QB.
Or get someone like the Steelers did this year or seahawks did 2 years ago. Use the resources to make the team better and then when a QB does land here we will have a good team.
It's about time.
Turns out there's a whole lot of ways to get there.
Again, the lesser problem was missing on Jones. The REAL problem was not identifying what was obvious after year two until year 6.
The idea of missing on a top QB setting the franchise back 5 years is absurd and outdated. With the rookie wage scale it is no more risky than taking a shot on a WR, CB or T (who also tend to bust).
Where teams tend to screw up is they double down on their mistake and keep forcing said draft pick into games thinking something will change, hence us on 6 years of Daniel Jones.
I've said this before, if we were in the 49er's situation, we'd still be starting Trey Lance and we would have never drafted Purdy because the team would have been to afraid to offend Trey...
Overdrafting Jones was a mistake but the far bigger mistake was keeping him for 6 years and counting.
I meant that he went to the SB 3 times and has 2 rings..
Where teams tend to screw up is they double down on their mistake and keep forcing said draft pick into games thinking something will change, hence us on 6 years of Daniel Jones.
I've said this before, if we were in the 49er's situation, we'd still be starting Trey Lance and we would have never drafted Purdy because the team would have been to afraid to offend Trey...
You said teams (plural) double down in your post...I think that's my biggest issue with the NYG.
Teams don't do this anymore. There's only one that does.
I suppose one can make the argument about the Cards and Jags...but they aren't far along in process as the Giants. SO maybe they made the same mistake - TBD
Sure, don’t draft a QB just to draft one, but there are always serviceable QB’s on the market. Sign one as a bridge QB, or pay to trade up to a spot where you can draft a QB you like.
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The Giants could have drafted instead of Eli?
I meant that he went to the SB 3 times and has 2 rings..
Pittsburgh were a perennial playoff team and contender prior to drafting Ben. He barely threw the ball early in his career and they won in spite of it. Count the Hall of Famers on that 2004 squad if you want, or through Ben's career. Eli has more than 2 in The Steel City.
But I also think Schoen has botched too many draft picks to have earned the right to give up the ton of draft capital necessary to move up for a QB. His player evaluation skills haven't been good enough to trust his judgment with such a major move.
You dont need to fall in love, you dont need to have conviction, etc
Set out for competition at the QB position and keep looking to improve the position
Where teams tend to screw up is they double down on their mistake and keep forcing said draft pick into games thinking something will change, hence us on 6 years of Daniel Jones.
I've said this before, if we were in the 49er's situation, we'd still be starting Trey Lance and we would have never drafted Purdy because the team would have been to afraid to offend Trey...
No, it would be like the 49ers still starting JimmyG.
On top of the fact that the DJ era has to end, there's not a shot in hell his agent would allow that to happen, or the NFLPA for that matter.
"Hey we want you on the roster in 2025, but instead of what we agreed to pay you, we want you to play for $12 million."
You think that's going to fly when he's guaranteed that exact amount if he's on the roster on the 5th day of the 2025 NFL year, and a $30 million base salary for the 2025 season?
Of all the insane ways to cling to this asshole for another year, this one is by far the most ludicrous.
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you do what you can to get him, period.
Where teams tend to screw up is they double down on their mistake and keep forcing said draft pick into games thinking something will change, hence us on 6 years of Daniel Jones.
I've said this before, if we were in the 49er's situation, we'd still be starting Trey Lance and we would have never drafted Purdy because the team would have been to afraid to offend Trey...
No, it would be like the 49ers still starting JimmyG.
Lol, you may be right
The fact of the matter is they are going to be forced to draft a QB. The fact is that they are incredibly desperate with a GM and HC that are on hot seats. They lost their opportunity to not force it. It's something many of us have said for a while.
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Cutting Jones and not getting anyone to replace Lock/Devito is not a good way to go into the draft. If a deal can be agreed upon with DJ something where he gets paid $10-12M next year which can help us out with the CAP next year would be ideal. DJ at $40M is bad.. DJ at $12M is actually a good choice so that we aren't desperate to get a QB.
On top of the fact that the DJ era has to end, there's not a shot in hell his agent would allow that to happen, or the NFLPA for that matter.
"Hey we want you on the roster in 2025, but instead of what we agreed to pay you, we want you to play for $12 million."
You think that's going to fly when he's guaranteed that exact amount if he's on the roster on the 5th day of the 2025 NFL year, and a $30 million base salary for the 2025 season?
Of all the insane ways to cling to this asshole for another year, this one is by far the most ludicrous.
I don't think NFLPA has a choice. We can cut him anytime we want after this season is over barring an injury. So he and his agent have an option now. We bench his ass the rest of the year so he can't get injured and then they can run around in the offseason looking for another contract or they can accept a re-done contract. This is the NFL. players re-do their contracts all the time to stay on a team.
If John Mara can't realize how his affection for making a media spokesman our QB has screwed this team over, we will make the same mistake with the next QB we bring in.
Im convinced there WILL be a new QB room next year, be it vets acquired by FA or trade or via the draft.
I think Schoen would have preferred to have a top draftee for this season to be playing by now. Long term for the organization, getting a talent like Nabers as “consolation”, was a good move IF they get a QB in here next year who can actually play!
I don't think NFLPA has a choice. We can cut him anytime we want after this season is over barring an injury. So he and his agent have an option now. We bench his ass the rest of the year so he can't get injured and then they can run around in the offseason looking for another contract or they can accept a re-done contract. This is the NFL. players re-do their contracts all the time to stay on a team.
Fair, but I'd suggest that Jones and his agent would say "thanks but no thanks" and look for somewhere else to go. Someone will take a shot at him, guys like him bounce around for 12 years.
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Cutting Jones and not getting anyone to replace Lock/Devito is not a good way to go into the draft. If a deal can be agreed upon with DJ something where he gets paid $10-12M next year which can help us out with the CAP next year would be ideal. DJ at $40M is bad.. DJ at $12M is actually a good choice so that we aren't desperate to get a QB.
On top of the fact that the DJ era has to end, there's not a shot in hell his agent would allow that to happen, or the NFLPA for that matter.
"Hey we want you on the roster in 2025, but instead of what we agreed to pay you, we want you to play for $12 million."
You think that's going to fly when he's guaranteed that exact amount if he's on the roster on the 5th day of the 2025 NFL year, and a $30 million base salary for the 2025 season?
Of all the insane ways to cling to this asshole for another year, this one is by far the most ludicrous.
I wonder how this poster would react if their boss came to them today and said "Contractually, we owe you your full salary, but we'd like to pay you only a fraction of that. How about it?"
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I don't think NFLPA has a choice. We can cut him anytime we want after this season is over barring an injury. So he and his agent have an option now. We bench his ass the rest of the year so he can't get injured and then they can run around in the offseason looking for another contract or they can accept a re-done contract. This is the NFL. players re-do their contracts all the time to stay on a team.
Fair, but I'd suggest that Jones and his agent would say "thanks but no thanks" and look for somewhere else to go. Someone will take a shot at him, guys like him bounce around for 12 years.
Thats fine. If he leaves he leaves. We bench him the rest of the year and suck it up with Lock. Don't have him run around out there waiting to get injured then. The negatives of DJ playing far outweigh the positive.
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Cutting Jones and not getting anyone to replace Lock/Devito is not a good way to go into the draft. If a deal can be agreed upon with DJ something where he gets paid $10-12M next year which can help us out with the CAP next year would be ideal. DJ at $40M is bad.. DJ at $12M is actually a good choice so that we aren't desperate to get a QB.
On top of the fact that the DJ era has to end, there's not a shot in hell his agent would allow that to happen, or the NFLPA for that matter.
"Hey we want you on the roster in 2025, but instead of what we agreed to pay you, we want you to play for $12 million."
You think that's going to fly when he's guaranteed that exact amount if he's on the roster on the 5th day of the 2025 NFL year, and a $30 million base salary for the 2025 season?
Of all the insane ways to cling to this asshole for another year, this one is by far the most ludicrous.
I wonder how this poster would react if their boss came to them today and said "Contractually, we owe you your full salary, but we'd like to pay you only a fraction of that. How about it?"
All employees in any At-will employment state live with this posibility. Didn't the giants do this to Sterling Shepard not too long ago?
You can't bring Jones back at any price.
I've always been gung ho about drafting QBs, but I'm getting gunshy about the Giants doing it because of the Jones experience. The whole "set the franchise back 5 years" is BS. But it might be true for the Giants.
So, unless you want Jameis Winston, Dalton, or Zach Wilson as plan A, they absolutely have to draft a QB early.
I've always been gung ho about drafting QBs, but I'm getting gunshy about the Giants doing it because of the Jones experience. The whole "set the franchise back 5 years" is BS. But it might be true for the Giants.
This is the big question. People are acting like the next QB will be a savior. The odds are very high the next QB will bust. Will the Giants be as dishonest with themselves about the new guy as they were with Jones?
I think they will be. The full bloom love approach to QBs lends itself to it. Shit they did it with Eli.
Let’s make up for lost time.
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I've always been gung ho about drafting QBs, but I'm getting gunshy about the Giants doing it because of the Jones experience. The whole "set the franchise back 5 years" is BS. But it might be true for the Giants.
This is the big question. People are acting like the next QB will be a savior. The odds are very high the next QB will bust. Will the Giants be as dishonest with themselves about the new guy as they were with Jones?
I think they will be. The full bloom love approach to QBs lends itself to it. Shit they did it with Eli.
I agree. This was my point going back to 2017. and telling your QB who is getting paid like Mahomes that he will get in line and take a 12M deal cause it helps the team would be the step in the right direction.
God forbid DJ gets injured and then collects another $40M next year. Instead doing something small like this actually helps fill a hole at backup QB position. DJ is a great guy and he can help the young QB if nothing else than make the new QB look better cause he sucks so bad. Signing Jones to a backup deal now allows us all the options to replace him as a starter next year as well as give us the ability to wait till 5th or 6th pick to take the BPA.
What needs to change is the team's approach to QB. They've got to stop treating these guys like they're US Senators.
They should draft two in April, not one. Then those guys should only get two years to prove they belong before the team explores options on replacing them.
Super Bowl winning QBs since 2001 show a slight preference for first round mid-range (mid-range teams already have talent and can be carried the last mile by a star QB). There are more (5 vs 3) SB winning QBs drafted after the first round than in the top of the first; here's the data:
12 individuals have won 23 Super Bowls since the 2001 season.
7 first round (3 position 1, then 10, 11, 18, 24)
1 second round 32
2 third round 75, 88
1 sixth round 199
1 ninth round 227
The winners are:
2001 Tom Brady (6th round 199)
2002 Brad Johnson (9th round 227)
2003 Tom Brady (6th round 199)
2004 Tom Brady (6th round 199)
2005 Ben Roethlisberger (1st round 11)
2006 Peyton Manning (1st round 1)
2007 Eli Manning (1st round 1)
2008 Ben Roethlisberger (1st round 11)
2009 Drew Brees (2nd round 32)
2010 Aaron Rodgers (1st round 24)
2011 Eli Manning (1st round 1)
2012 Joe Flacco (1st round 18)
2013 Russell Wilson (3rd round 75)
2014 Tom Brady (6th round 199)
2015 Peyton Manning (1st round 1)
2016 Tom Brady (6th round 199)
2017 Nick Foles (3rd round 88)
2018 Tom Brady (6th round 199)
2019 Patrick Mahomes (1st round 10)
2020 Tom Brady (6th round 199)
2021 Matthew Stafford (1st round 1)
2022 Patrick Mahomes (1st round 10)
2023 Patrick Mahomes (1st round 10)
I think the data says that if you are picking in the top 3-5 sopts, your team isn't ready to win, even with:
Trevor Lawrence
Zach Wilson
Trey Lance
Baker Mayfield
Kyler Murray
Mitch Trubisky
(the list is very long)
Bottom line: Bad teams pick high and ruin potentially championship winning QBs. Build your team, win some games, get your guy lower 1st round or after.
What needs to change is the team's approach to QB. They've got to stop treating these guys like they're US Senators.
They should draft two in April, not one. Then those guys should only get two years to prove they belong before the team explores options on replacing them.
I wanted them to pick one in last years draft, simply because I believe Daboll was able to take an UDFA QB and make him a respectable back up. Someone with slightly more physical ability would be a great way to move on from DJ. But my conspiracy theory is that Daboll and Schoen didn't want to give Mara any 'out' on DJ and picked up Lock as that limited ceiling potential QB. This way when DJ flops they can move on cleanly. I just wonder if they will be able to survive the year with this plan....again, my conspiracy theory.
I see no downside. If he isn't working out draft another one next year or the year after, and sign a vet if you want.
Why would the NY media be a problem. We have had a bad QB for 6 years and nobody in the media has been anything but kind and deferential to him.
What needs to change is the team's approach to QB. They've got to stop treating these guys like they're US Senators.
They should draft two in April, not one. Then those guys should only get two years to prove they belong before the team explores options on replacing them.
this. and i would also sign a FA that can actually play.
Cause Cousins is a highly paid QB. I want to pay DJ a backup salary.. higher than the likes of Lock but not anywhere close to Cousins. But yes that was a good plan by Atlanta if they hadn't spend their entire bank on Cousins.