Many teams have traded numerous draft picks to acquire a quarterback, but these strategies often prove unsuccessful. It's generally more prudent to trade a smaller number of picks to move up in the draft after several non-quarterback prospects have been selected.
Panthers for Young
49ers for Lance
Jets for Darnold
Rams for Goff
Washington for RGIII
Atlants for Vick
Chargers for Leaf
Even the Giants for Eli which seems like a success story.. the other guy we would have drafted has 3 rings..
My point is don't go into the draft ready to unload future draft picks for a QB. If he falls to you or you have to give up a reasonable amount to move up to get him then do it.
Hence the Giants should really have a decent solutions in place prior to the draft. Meaning something like 2004 when we had Kurt/Collins in place. Cutting Jones and not getting anyone to replace Lock/Devito is not a good way to go into the draft. If a deal can be agreed upon with DJ something where he gets paid $10-12M next year which can help us out with the CAP next year would be ideal. DJ at $40M is bad.. DJ at $12M is actually a good choice so that we aren't desperate to get a QB.
Or get someone like the Steelers did this year or seahawks did 2 years ago. Use the resources to make the team better and then when a QB does land here we will have a good team.
Where teams tend to screw up is they double down on their mistake and keep forcing said draft pick into games thinking something will change, hence us on 6 years of Daniel Jones.
I've said this before, if we were in the 49er's situation, we'd still be starting Trey Lance and we would have never drafted Purdy because the team would have been to afraid to offend Trey...
Where teams tend to screw up is they double down on their mistake and keep forcing said draft pick into games thinking something will change, hence us on 6 years of Daniel Jones.
I've said this before, if we were in the 49er's situation, we'd still be starting Trey Lance and we would have never drafted Purdy because the team would have been to afraid to offend Trey...
I don't think the Chiefs have. But they have Mahomes and have had a very good stable of back-ups.
But the Bills have. The Ravens have. The Chargers have. Etc.
Regardless, it's a very good point and indictment on this organization's incompetence how to manage and plan for the position.
I thought that was the threadstarter would say. The I actually read the post. Oy vey.
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Then make a priority to draft one. Ideally you get one in the first, but you can't force something if it's not there. If you can't get one at first round grade, you get one later. But the key is to set the floor for your team in FA because you can't control how the draft will play out.
I thought that was the threadstarter would say. The I actually read the post. Oy vey.
I think this is also a good solution. but the reason why I say to bring back Jones now is that its looks scary everytime he runs and there are chances he can get injured and we would be on hook for a huge amount if he did get hurt. Dealing with his next contract now or benching him would be a better solution in my mind.
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I would cut him today.
What needs to change is the team's approach to QB. They've got to stop treating these guys like they're US Senators.
They should draft two in April, not one. Then those guys should only get two years to prove they belong before the team explores options on replacing them.
Ryan Tannehill is stil an UFA! Cut Jones and pay him off to leave, put Lock on waivers, then sign Tannehill and keep DeVito as the back-up.
this. and i would also sign a FA that can actually play.
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They haven't drafted a single QB in any round in 6 years, longest in the NFL.
I don't think the Chiefs have. But they have Mahomes and have had a very good stable of back-ups.
But the Bills have. The Ravens have. The Chargers have. Etc.
Regardless, it's a very good point and indictment on this organization's incompetence how to manage and plan for the position.
Yup, that is correct. My mistake on missing the Chiefs in that stat.
Totally agree with this approach. There will be Free Agents that have experience and might buy you a year or two to develop a young QB. The key is not to reach and lose another 4-5 years.
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Then make a priority to draft one. Ideally you get one in the first, but you can't force something if it's not there. If you can't get one at first round grade, you get one later. But the key is to set the floor for your team in FA because you can't control how the draft will play out.
Totally agree with this approach. There will be Free Agents that have experience and might buy you a year or two to develop a young QB. The key is not to reach and lose another 4-5 years.
Agreed.
I get what you're saying but I made this point before the last draft - the average tenure is probably about 3-4 years. These guys (assuming both come back) are going into year 4.
Unless inheriting a top 10 guy you really are forced into taking a QB. It comes down to when you do it. Schoen & Daboll are backed into a corner now and will probably do whatever it takes to draft a QB; it may end up giving one or both two more years.
And that's the issue here imo, Mara isn't going to let a kid be picked and then clean house again after year 1. He still probably believes that's what ruined Jones.
You keep this regime and I really believe you're looking at 2 more years. Or you clean house this offseason and let Vrabel pick GM and a QB. I'm not out on Schoen and Daboll but the latter option sounds good to me although unrealistic.
Sure, don’t draft a QB just to draft one, but there are always serviceable QB’s on the market. Sign one as a bridge QB, or pay to trade up to a spot where you can draft a QB you like.
"Why would Jones renegotiate?"
The conversation would go something like this:
DJ, we want to bring you back but we are not comfortable at your current salary. We want to make a fair offer of $XM for 1 year, with playing incentives that can get you an additional $XM. If you decline, we will need to cut you and end our relationship.
Please think it over and get back to us by Monday 9am with your decision.
A former starting QB that gets cut, usually get resigned at or below $10M/season base upon performance. Why would DJ want to subject himself to a potentially unfriendly market just to stand on the sidelines as somebody's backup?
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Cutting Jones and not getting anyone to replace Lock/Devito is not a good way to go into the draft. If a deal can be agreed upon with DJ something where he gets paid $10-12M next year which can help us out with the CAP next year would be ideal. DJ at $40M is bad.. DJ at $12M is actually a good choice so that we aren't desperate to get a QB.
On top of the fact that the DJ era has to end, there's not a shot in hell his agent would allow that to happen, or the NFLPA for that matter.
"Hey we want you on the roster in 2025, but instead of what we agreed to pay you, we want you to play for $12 million."
You think that's going to fly when he's guaranteed that exact amount if he's on the roster on the 5th day of the 2025 NFL year, and a $30 million base salary for the 2025 season?
Of all the insane ways to cling to this asshole for another year, this one is by far the most ludicrous.
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Cutting Jones and not getting anyone to replace Lock/Devito is not a good way to go into the draft. If a deal can be agreed upon with DJ something where he gets paid $10-12M next year which can help us out with the CAP next year would be ideal. DJ at $40M is bad.. DJ at $12M is actually a good choice so that we aren't desperate to get a QB.
On top of the fact that the DJ era has to end, there's not a shot in hell his agent would allow that to happen, or the NFLPA for that matter.
"Hey we want you on the roster in 2025, but instead of what we agreed to pay you, we want you to play for $12 million."
You think that's going to fly when he's guaranteed that exact amount if he's on the roster on the 5th day of the 2025 NFL year, and a $30 million base salary for the 2025 season?
Of all the insane ways to cling to this asshole for another year, this one is by far the most ludicrous.
Yes, chucky has set a benchmark. But, someone from the DJFC might come up with something to top it.
I have no idea how my post would make you think I am part of the DJFC.. I am proposing a solution that works well for Giants and DJ.. It doesn't feed the need for blood from the angry fans but just satisfying a fan base for the sake of it, is how we got here..
One thing that must be done in concert with this is adding more weapons, 2 credible receivers and a TE that can be active in the passing game as you cannot go into next year with anything close to this group. They also need to find a swing tackle that can play at least at a below average level not the season crushing disaster they have now.
So, unless you want Jameis Winston, Dalton, or Zach Wilson as plan A, they absolutely have to draft a QB early.
Draft a QB get Winston or dalton or the like as a bridge. Clear the team of this years 3
Who is this QB with three rings?
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The other guy with three rings had defenses that averaged being in the top three the majority of his entire of his carrer. His early days with the NY media would have been a disaster.
Who is this QB with three rings?
I think he's referring to Big Ben, who has 2 rings, not 3.
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anyone could make. The fanbase will go nuts. And why would Jones renegotiate?
Sure, don’t draft a QB just to draft one, but there are always serviceable QB’s on the market. Sign one as a bridge QB, or pay to trade up to a spot where you can draft a QB you like.
"Why would Jones renegotiate?"
The conversation would go something like this:
DJ, we want to bring you back but we are not comfortable at your current salary. We want to make a fair offer of $XM for 1 year, with playing incentives that can get you an additional $XM. If you decline, we will need to cut you and end our relationship.
Please think it over and get back to us by Monday 9am with your decision.
A former starting QB that gets cut, usually get resigned at or below $10M/season base upon performance. Why would DJ want to subject himself to a potentially unfriendly market just to stand on the sidelines as somebody's backup?
When has that ever happened though? I'll admit to a bit of a foggy memory as I get older, but I don't recall any long-term starter QB renegotiating his contract for less to come back to the team that drafted him. Most want a change of scenery, and I expect Jones would too.
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In comment 16658270 Section331 said:
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anyone could make. The fanbase will go nuts. And why would Jones renegotiate?
Sure, don’t draft a QB just to draft one, but there are always serviceable QB’s on the market. Sign one as a bridge QB, or pay to trade up to a spot where you can draft a QB you like.
"Why would Jones renegotiate?"
The conversation would go something like this:
DJ, we want to bring you back but we are not comfortable at your current salary. We want to make a fair offer of $XM for 1 year, with playing incentives that can get you an additional $XM. If you decline, we will need to cut you and end our relationship.
Please think it over and get back to us by Monday 9am with your decision.
A former starting QB that gets cut, usually get resigned at or below $10M/season base upon performance. Why would DJ want to subject himself to a potentially unfriendly market just to stand on the sidelines as somebody's backup?
When has that ever happened though? I'll admit to a bit of a foggy memory as I get older, but I don't recall any long-term starter QB renegotiating his contract for less to come back to the team that drafted him. Most want a change of scenery, and I expect Jones would too.
I don't think this is something that has been done before for a qb.. but as I mentioned above Sterling Shepard was forced to do this.. others like McNair and Brady took less money but those are different scenarios with differnt motives. If the negotiations don't work then just bench him. No need to risk injury and then his agent can try and answer why he can't get a 12M deal after seating on the bench for 3 months..
There is no reason to pay Jones double what those guys make, who are better backup options.
There is no reason to pay Jones double what those guys make, who are better backup options.
Tyrod is making 9 mil per year.. Dalton is making 5.. so you are right I won't mind going lower.. the reason for something like 12 is that he would be more likely to agree to high end backup money.. and if doing an updated contract can push our dead money out further, its slightly better for us. I mainly don't mind 12M becasue it isn't a big deal, I consider part of it to be insurance cost for the rest of this season. The worst thing that can happen the rest of the year is that he gets injured..
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That's double the cost of Winston, Dalton, Flacco, Tyrod, Mariota, etc.
There is no reason to pay Jones double what those guys make, who are better backup options.
Tyrod is making 9 mil per year.. Dalton is making 5.. so you are right I won't mind going lower.. the reason for something like 12 is that he would be more likely to agree to high end backup money.. and if doing an updated contract can push our dead money out further, its slightly better for us. I mainly don't mind 12M becasue it isn't a big deal, I consider part of it to be insurance cost for the rest of this season. The worst thing that can happen the rest of the year is that he gets injured..
Nope, Tyrod is on a 2 year 12 mil contract.
If they are concerned about the injury guarantee, they would just bench him, not commit more money and years to him. The fact is that they clearly don't care about injury guarantee, otherwise they wouldn't be calling QB dives in week 7 for a team who's season is already over.
And why would they want to push the dead money out? If they draft a new QB, now I'd the time to take your medicine and clean up the cap books. If they want to push money out, they would do it by restructuring Dex, Thomas, Burns or Runyan, or extending Elumenour. Hell, they could designate Jones as a post June 1 cut to extend our the dead money.
I just don't see why the Giants would or should want this in anyway
Tyrod - ( New Window )
Jermaine Elumenour signed a contract for 7 million per year.
For 12 million, the Giants could have an Elumenour AND a better backup QB in Flacco/Dalton/Winston.
Jermaine Elumenour signed a contract for 7 million per year.
For 12 million, the Giants could have an Elumenour AND a better backup QB in Flacco/Dalton/Winston.
I tought Taylor had a 2 year 18M deal.. but yes you are right. I won't offer a little more than what the guys you mentioned are making.. Right now even if he is a June 1st designated cut it would still cost us 11M plus the cost of backup. and much more if he is injured before then. If we re-wrok his deal to get him paid like a backup and a little more to satisfy him we won't need to worry about injury.. we can still save money vs just cutting him outright..
What worries me is that management isn't concerned about an injury. Am injury now basically screws us as much as his contract 2 years ago..
Is that you, John Mara? Because drafting Arch Manning is EXACTLY the type of idiot move the Maras would have done.
I would have kept Rivers and the draft picks.
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Lastly, to the point that 12 million isn't that much:
Jermaine Elumenour signed a contract for 7 million per year.
For 12 million, the Giants could have an Elumenour AND a better backup QB in Flacco/Dalton/Winston.
I tought Taylor had a 2 year 18M deal.. but yes you are right. I won't offer a little more than what the guys you mentioned are making.. Right now even if he is a June 1st designated cut it would still cost us 11M plus the cost of backup. and much more if he is injured before then. If we re-wrok his deal to get him paid like a backup and a little more to satisfy him we won't need to worry about injury.. we can still save money vs just cutting him outright..
What worries me is that management isn't concerned about an injury. Am injury now basically screws us as much as his contract 2 years ago..
What does the 11 million (or 22 if he's cut) have to do with anything? There isn't anything we can do to reduce that. Your suggestion just increase the money and cap space he will take up. I don't see any benefit in that whatsoever. Again, if they are concerned about the injury, just bench him. You don't essentially extend him to mitigate the risk. That's just prolonging and increasing the pain
It's very hard to rationalize but it is 100 correct.
Unless someone falls to you or you can trade up without putting too many chips in to get it done.
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, picking up another #1 for 2026, and draft Arch Manning :)
Is that you, John Mara? Because drafting Arch Manning is EXACTLY the type of idiot move the Maras would have done.
I would have kept Rivers and the draft picks.
And there is an excellent chance that Manning stays for his senior year and is not even in the 2026 draft.
But even if we knew that for sure, I think we would have fans on this site who would then gladly wait for 2027.