I am an old timer- rooting for Giants since before the Greatest Game Ever Played. Gifford my boyhood idol but also loved so many other Giants - Big Red, Little and Big Mo, YAT, so many more back then, let alone more recent greats, non more so than LT. But, here I am again going through another dark period. It is so bleak that I wonder if I will be around to see the return of the good times, or even of a competitive team. I digress somewhat, so back on track. I was never a Jones hater. In fact, I thought he might be special with the way he played as a rookie. Yes, he had those fumbling issues that needed to be straightened out. I was sure they would be, especially if we could get a decent Left Tackle to protect his blind side. However, now I am over him. I kept hoping he could become what I thought he would, but he can't. This is what is bugging me. Take a look at his rookie year highlights and tell me what happened. He is still the same guy but he is not the same guy. Did Judge ruin him? I have been a long time lurker that hasn't posted in years but I just needed to throw this out there. Fire away!
Daniel Jones rookie year highlights - (
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The negative talk about Jones has gotten to great for the mothership, sending out the defense force
Jones has multiple problems, and one is getting clobbered or self-clobbering. He has the occasional hero complex and puts his head first into tackles. Or his O-Line collapses faster than an imploding red star and he gets creamed.
So he is ruined-he was not this bad under Shurmer. I will argue Garrett screwed him up royally.
Now Dabs is trying to recreate Jones as the new Josh Allen-forget it. Another epic coach error.
Start Devito, at least its a nice local story and he had a good 3 win run there
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decided today was the day they would break their silence to advocate for Daniel Jones. It’s a fucking cult.
The negative talk about Jones has gotten to great for the mothership, sending out the defense force
Actually, maybe you should read it again.
Give the newbie a break tho, his boyhood idol is Gifford, maybe he just figured out how to use a laptop.
As for the other replies, I thank you for your reasoned input. I think it would be fun to continue this witty repartee but, alas, it is past my bedtime. Now I just need to figure how to shut this danged computer thing off.
I think two things hindered his development. One was an offensive line that that was terrible. When a qb doesn't have the quick decision making ability being rushed is destined for failure. Then, in trying to cut down on his interceptions, he became afraid to throw the ball down field.
So, he compensated by being the check down king. Why the Giants stick with him is curious because he doesn't produce points. Sure, he has a good completion percentage. I could do that by throwing 5 yard passes all game. The biggest lie this year was the Cowboys game. He was lauded for having a 100 rating, but how many points did they score?
classic
No, you get that kind of nickname from people who turn the TV off after the Giants game and don't watch better QBs play the position.
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decided today was the day they would break their silence to advocate for Daniel Jones. It’s a fucking cult.
The negative talk about Jones has gotten to great for the mothership, sending out the defense force
Yep.. new accounts from people within the organization. It is too obvious. Plus, how do all of these people know to always say.. "long time lurker". They all say it
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In comment 16658894 Section331 said:
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decided today was the day they would break their silence to advocate for Daniel Jones. It’s a fucking cult.
The negative talk about Jones has gotten to great for the mothership, sending out the defense force
Yep.. new accounts from people within the organization. It is too obvious. Plus, how do all of these people know to always say.. "long time lurker". They all say it
No doubt Pat Hanlon is behind it.
What are you referring to? Did you read what Mitoman wrote?
"However, now I am over (Daniel Jones). I kept hoping he could become what I thought he would, but he can't."
He's gun shy so he laterally looks at 1-2 receivers every play.
Pat Shurmur has just been very good at covering up bad QBs like Nick Foles and Case Keenum
Shurmur designed the offense to largely run with every WR running the same route simplifying things for Jones tremendously
Good enough to light up bad defenses but bad enough to get whacked by everyone else
For those pining for Rookie Jones
He lost seven straight games.
He put up 13 of his 24 TDs in 3 games so 11 TDs in his other 10 games which is average of 1 TD per game
play again but I think the Giants are in tank mode. The defense has been playing great but they need to score more touchdowns :-) .
Has he seemed to have gotten worse during his career? Maybe, but maybe teams just know how to take away the 1 or 2 things he does well so you don't see the flashes anymore.
The reality is this, we're too many years in of poor results to be asking why. The org needs to stop worrying about what is best for Jones and just cut bait and bring in a new QB.
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decided today was the day they would break their silence to advocate for Daniel Jones. It’s a fucking cult.
What are you referring to? Did you read what Mitoman wrote?
"However, now I am over (Daniel Jones). I kept hoping he could become what I thought he would, but he can't."
Followed by "Did Judge ruin him? What happened?"
It couldn't possibly be he was always a bad QB, the OP is trying to build sympathy and scapegoat others for Jones failing. Judge is an easy target for that
Daniel Jones may have had a different career arc with a different team, a different supporting cast, a different head coach, a different offensive coordinator, a different QB coach, a different OL, a different group of pass catchers....etc.
But he didn't.
Maybe Judge broke him, maybe it was Garrett, maybe it was Daboll, maybe it was Kafka, who knows.
All I do know is that is was pretty clear awhile ago to anyone that was willing to be non-partisan that Daniel Jones and the NYG should have parted ways at the end of his rookie contract.
But instead, like a marriage gone bad, the NYG kept making more bad decisions in an effort to "make it work", when in reality a leopard can't change it's spots.
At the end of all of it, just like a bad marriage, everyone will look back on it and say it just wasn't going to work and we wasted a lot time on something we all knew deep down just wasn't going to happen - no matter how badly they wanted it to.
DJ made plays his first year against some very bad defenses where he was both taking shots down the field, and turning the ball over at a record pace. When they coached the carelessness out of him, it also took his ability to make plays. One can't exist without the other for Jones - they are a package deal.
tl;dr. Jones was never a good QB in the NFL. Nobody ruined him. He just never became anything more that he was in college - a guy who teased potential but never consistently delivered.
But DJ was never the man - in H.S., NCAAF or the NFL. It was a fantasy that he'd grow into the man.
He put up 13 of his 24 TDs in 3 games so 11 TDs in his other 10 games which is average of 1 TD per game
Five of those TDs came in a game against one of the worst defensive units ever to take the field in an NFL game.
I'm tired of people trying to figure out who "ruined" Daniel Jones instead of considering the possibility that a few games in his rookie year were the mirage, rather than everything that followed.
Pat Shurmur coaxed a 22 TD, 7 INT, 7.4 Y/A season out of Case Keenum, and that was without a million fumbles like Jones. If you want to say Jones showed "flashes" or whatever that year, fine, but he's the same QB from his draft scouting report.
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He put up 13 of his 24 TDs in 3 games so 11 TDs in his other 10 games which is average of 1 TD per game
Five of those TDs came in a game against one of the worst defensive units ever to take the field in an NFL game.
I'm tired of people trying to figure out who "ruined" Daniel Jones instead of considering the possibility that a few games in his rookie year were the mirage, rather than everything that followed.
Pat Shurmur coaxed a 22 TD, 7 INT, 7.4 Y/A season out of Case Keenum, and that was without a million fumbles like Jones. If you want to say Jones showed "flashes" or whatever that year, fine, but he's the same QB from his draft scouting report.
I'm genuinely curious if that is a fact.
Insanity
I think two things hindered his development. One was an offensive line that that was terrible. When a qb doesn't have the quick decision making ability being rushed is destined for failure. Then, in trying to cut down on his interceptions, he became afraid to throw the ball down field.
So, he compensated by being the check down king. Why the Giants stick with him is curious because he doesn't produce points. Sure, he has a good completion percentage. I could do that by throwing 5 yard passes all game. The biggest lie this year was the Cowboys game. He was lauded for having a 100 rating, but how many points did they score?
There was definitely promise after his rookie year, but too many here overlook how Shurmur tailored the offense for Jones. Cut the field in half, give him one read. That’s not unusual for rookie QB’s, but many struggle when the playbook is opened up.
So was Jones really “ruined” by Judge/Garrett, or was he never good enough to play with a full playbook? I don’t buy that Garrett ruined him. I didn’t love the JG hire, but 2 late round draft pick QB’s thrived under him - Romo and Dak. The idea that he suddenly forgot how to coach QB’s when he got here is simply ludicrous.
Occam’s razor suggests that maybe, just maybe, the problem was the QB.
Fair point, and just as an aside, as good as Shurmur is with QB’s, even he couldn’t coax good play out of Drew Lock.
Maybe it's his neck or maybe a lifelong problem.
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In comment 16658894 Section331 said:
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decided today was the day they would break their silence to advocate for Daniel Jones. It’s a fucking cult.
What are you referring to? Did you read what Mitoman wrote?
"However, now I am over (Daniel Jones). I kept hoping he could become what I thought he would, but he can't."
Followed by "Did Judge ruin him? What happened?"
It couldn't possibly be he was always a bad QB, the OP is trying to build sympathy and scapegoat others for Jones failing. Judge is an easy target for that
I think in retrospect, Jason Garrett looked at the film and decided the only way to play Jones was to go ultra conservative.
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He put up 13 of his 24 TDs in 3 games so 11 TDs in his other 10 games which is average of 1 TD per game
I'm genuinely curious if that is a fact.
It's an opinion supported by the following evidence:
In the final 3 games of 2019, Washington allowed 37, 41, and 47 points. Opponents gained 415, 552, and 517 yards.
Injured/Inactive - Ryan Kerrigan, Josh Norman, Fabian Moreau, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
CB Aaron Colvin - After starting week 1 for HOU, he was released and signed by WAS. He either DNP or was inactive 9 of the next 12 games. He'd played a total of 22 defensive snaps in two games before starting and playing 100% of the defensive snaps for WAS against the Giants. He played one more game the final week of 2019, and then his career was over.
CB Coty Sensabaugh - Unsigned as a free agent before the 2019 season, signed after a tryout in October by the Broncos. He played a total of 17 defensive snaps in 3 games with DEN, and was released. WAS signed him on the Tuesday before the Giants game. He played 90% of the defensive snaps against the Giants. Like Colvin, his career ended after playing one more game.
CB Kayvon Webster - Like Sensabaugh, signed on Tuesday ahead of the Giants game after not being on an NFL roster all season. He played 70% of the defensive snaps vs. NYG. Career over after 2019.
FS Montae Nicholson - A regular on the WAS defense who allowed a passer rating of 105.2 in 2019, which as you can probably guess by now was his last season in the NFL.
LB Ryan Anderson - A liability in pass coverage (88% completions allowed in 2019) the Giants game was the 2nd to last start of his NFL career. After finishing out 2019, he never again played more than 29 defensive snaps in any of his last 14 NFL games.
DJ made plays his first year against some very bad defenses where he was both taking shots down the field, and turning the ball over at a record pace. When they coached the carelessness out of him, it also took his ability to make plays. One can't exist without the other for Jones - they are a package deal.
tl;dr. Jones was never a good QB in the NFL. Nobody ruined him. He just never became anything more that he was in college - a guy who teased potential but never consistently delivered.
100% on the mark.
Well said.
Maybe it's his neck or maybe a lifelong problem.
Correct, but this is injury spillover. The other issues, as Mike from Ohio detailed, have always been present. Even at Dook.
Pat Shurmur has just been very good at covering up bad QBs like Nick Foles and Case Keenum
Shurmur designed the offense to largely run with every WR running the same route simplifying things for Jones tremendously
Good enough to light up bad defenses but bad enough to get whacked by everyone else
For those pining for Rookie Jones
He lost seven straight games.
He put up 13 of his 24 TDs in 3 games so 11 TDs in his other 10 games which is average of 1 TD per game
pretty much this. And I'll second the notion that his throwing ability is diminished, whether it be from injury or throwing mechanics being coached so much he's a mess. He was never top notch accurate, but now he's dreadful more often than good.
He never was good. We simply kept holding out hope that he was going to get better with experience and better team around him. His processing speed is suspect, and he has only minimally flashed in the mental IT factor.
I actually think he is good enough this year to be mediocre, except for the pesky problem of accuracy, which is lacking at all levels of the route tree.
Accuracy is the main reason he needs replacing. Doesn't matter if he makes the right decisions if he can't deliver the ball.
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He put up 13 of his 24 TDs in 3 games so 11 TDs in his other 10 games which is average of 1 TD per game
I'm genuinely curious if that is a fact.
It's an opinion supported by the following evidence:
In the final 3 games of 2019, Washington allowed 37, 41, and 47 points. Opponents gained 415, 552, and 517 yards.
Injured/Inactive - Ryan Kerrigan, Josh Norman, Fabian Moreau, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
CB Aaron Colvin - After starting week 1 for HOU, he was released and signed by WAS. He either DNP or was inactive 9 of the next 12 games. He'd played a total of 22 defensive snaps in two games before starting and playing 100% of the defensive snaps for WAS against the Giants. He played one more game the final week of 2019, and then his career was over.
CB Coty Sensabaugh - Unsigned as a free agent before the 2019 season, signed after a tryout in October by the Broncos. He played a total of 17 defensive snaps in 3 games with DEN, and was released. WAS signed him on the Tuesday before the Giants game. He played 90% of the defensive snaps against the Giants. Like Colvin, his career ended after playing one more game.
CB Kayvon Webster - Like Sensabaugh, signed on Tuesday ahead of the Giants game after not being on an NFL roster all season. He played 70% of the defensive snaps vs. NYG. Career over after 2019.
FS Montae Nicholson - A regular on the WAS defense who allowed a passer rating of 105.2 in 2019, which as you can probably guess by now was his last season in the NFL.
LB Ryan Anderson - A liability in pass coverage (88% completions allowed in 2019) the Giants game was the 2nd to last start of his NFL career. After finishing out 2019, he never again played more than 29 defensive snaps in any of his last 14 NFL games.
Thanks - I can see your point.
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He put up 13 of his 24 TDs in 3 games so 11 TDs in his other 10 games which is average of 1 TD per game
I'm genuinely curious if that is a fact.
It's an opinion supported by the following evidence:
In the final 3 games of 2019, Washington allowed 37, 41, and 47 points. Opponents gained 415, 552, and 517 yards.
Injured/Inactive - Ryan Kerrigan, Josh Norman, Fabian Moreau, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie
CB Aaron Colvin - After starting week 1 for HOU, he was released and signed by WAS. He either DNP or was inactive 9 of the next 12 games. He'd played a total of 22 defensive snaps in two games before starting and playing 100% of the defensive snaps for WAS against the Giants. He played one more game the final week of 2019, and then his career was over.
CB Coty Sensabaugh - Unsigned as a free agent before the 2019 season, signed after a tryout in October by the Broncos. He played a total of 17 defensive snaps in 3 games with DEN, and was released. WAS signed him on the Tuesday before the Giants game. He played 90% of the defensive snaps against the Giants. Like Colvin, his career ended after playing one more game.
CB Kayvon Webster - Like Sensabaugh, signed on Tuesday ahead of the Giants game after not being on an NFL roster all season. He played 70% of the defensive snaps vs. NYG. Career over after 2019.
FS Montae Nicholson - A regular on the WAS defense who allowed a passer rating of 105.2 in 2019, which as you can probably guess by now was his last season in the NFL.
LB Ryan Anderson - A liability in pass coverage (88% completions allowed in 2019) the Giants game was the 2nd to last start of his NFL career. After finishing out 2019, he never again played more than 29 defensive snaps in any of his last 14 NFL games.
Wow. Appreciate the research.
Thanks - I can see your point.
I can't imagine a better recipe for an opposing QB than a secondary full of scrubs who had 3 practices and zero games together, on a go-nowhere team playing for an interim head coach in a meaningless December game.
Right now, I'm not sure DJ is better than Brown. After all, Brown played QB in an era where passing wasn't as prolific as it is today, with the new rules hampering the defense.
Right now, I'm not sure DJ is better than Brown. After all, Brown played QB in an era where passing wasn't as prolific as it is today, with the new rules hampering the defense.
Jones and Brown are essentially the same QB. Daniel Jones being a faster runner is the only discernible difference between the two.