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| WBG84 @WBG84 "The NFL is largely cool on the 2025 QB class right now. That isn't to say the first round will be devoid of QBs. I suspect that we could have five first-rounders if all the top QBs declare. But this class is viewed far less favorably than the 2024 group." - @FieldYates #NFLDraft |
There is no requirement that the next QB drafted has to be "the guy".
There is no requirement that the next QB drafted has to be "the guy".
EXACTLY. With the rookie wage scale, QBs should be treated like any other position.
Evan Neal for example. As soon as you realize he's not the guy, you bench him and start trying to find a replacement.
What we should have done with Jones years ago.
Drafting a QB doesn't guarantee success. But sticking with the wrong guy too long will guarantee failure.
There is no requirement that the next QB drafted has to be "the guy".
QB should be viewed as any other position. There are so little truly transcendent QBs that can carry a franchise. People talk like it's easy to find.
Schoen has acquired a new TE each offseason either through draft or trade. Yet with QB, there is this fear with drafting someone.
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The fundamental flaw in the system is drafting a quarterback and acting like he has to be "the guy". That may have been the case when the #1 overall pick QB instantly became one of the highest paid players in the league on a 6 year contract, but that has been eliminated with the rookie wage scale.
There is no requirement that the next QB drafted has to be "the guy".
QB should be viewed as any other position. There are so little truly transcendent QBs that can carry a franchise. People talk like it's easy to find.
Schoen has acquired a new TE each offseason either through draft or trade. Yet with QB, there is this fear with drafting someone.
That's because the Giants continue to view the position like it's a US senator.
So I ask for the millionth time: who is the guy in the 2025 class that is going to make their hearts go pitter patter?
The only guy I could see is Allar.
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In comment 16666460 Go Terps said:
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The fundamental flaw in the system is drafting a quarterback and acting like he has to be "the guy". That may have been the case when the #1 overall pick QB instantly became one of the highest paid players in the league on a 6 year contract, but that has been eliminated with the rookie wage scale.
There is no requirement that the next QB drafted has to be "the guy".
QB should be viewed as any other position. There are so little truly transcendent QBs that can carry a franchise. People talk like it's easy to find.
Schoen has acquired a new TE each offseason either through draft or trade. Yet with QB, there is this fear with drafting someone.
That's because the Giants continue to view the position like it's a US senator.
So I ask for the millionth time: who is the guy in the 2025 class that is going to make their hearts go pitter patter?
The only guy I could see is Allar.
"The Giants" is not the same
Schoen and Daboll will get their guy
If this was the same ol Giants they would have drafted Odunze over Nabers
My point being is these QBs actually are pretty good, but they don't have the hype of last years class that was built up for YEARS. I mean we talked about 5 star Bo Nix when he was a FR at Auburn in 2004 20 years ago I believe. Don't quote me on the timing on that. They took all the talk and now people are like what do we have? We have a good class in Milroe, Bech, Ward, Sanders, Ewers, etc depending who comes out of course.
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In comment 16666436 Sean said:
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In comment 16666385 JT039 said:
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thats not a very high bar. The goal is to get a QB you can win consistently with and compete for SBs.
With this mindset, this is how you trot out Jones for 6 years. So, improving at QB isn't enough - have to wait until you find an all-pro. All while Jones remains the starter.
Way to put words into my mouth. Not even close to anything I even remotely said.
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. It's just the flaw that comes with that mindset and I don't doubt that's how NYG thinks.
There’s a clear dinsticntion in saying finding a franchise QBs that helps you win games and finding an all pro.
We need a QB to help us win games - there’s about 12-15 now in the NFL that fall in that category. So drafting one should be doable. They don’t need to be all pros.
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In comment 16666460 Go Terps said:
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The fundamental flaw in the system is drafting a quarterback and acting like he has to be "the guy". That may have been the case when the #1 overall pick QB instantly became one of the highest paid players in the league on a 6 year contract, but that has been eliminated with the rookie wage scale.
There is no requirement that the next QB drafted has to be "the guy".
QB should be viewed as any other position. There are so little truly transcendent QBs that can carry a franchise. People talk like it's easy to find.
Schoen has acquired a new TE each offseason either through draft or trade. Yet with QB, there is this fear with drafting someone.
That's because the Giants continue to view the position like it's a US senator.
So I ask for the millionth time: who is the guy in the 2025 class that is going to make their hearts go pitter patter?
The only guy I could see is Allar.
If we still have the current regime (I would probably move on), I think Dabs will love the skill set that Sanders has.
There is no requirement that the next QB drafted has to be "the guy".
I agree, but when you have the #6 pick you want to have a pretty good chance of becoming "the guy". If we're talking about pipeline and small bets - definitely keep trying stuff, see if you can get lucky or even just get some decent cheap option. At #6 though, the opportunity cost is high. I'm looking for a 30-40% chance that the guy is "the guy" (ie a top 10-ish QB for multiple years).
What did the NFL think of Brady, and Purdy? For that matter, what did they think of Joe Montana (3rd round #82), Brett Favre (2nd round #33), Drew Brees (2nd round #32), Russell Wilson (3rd round #75), Joe Theismann (Round 4 #99)?
What did the NFL think of JaMarcus Russell, Michael Vick, David Carr, Carson Palmer, Sam Bradford, or Mitch Trubisky? All drafted as pick #1 or #2, no Super Bowl wins.
"The NFL" misses more than it hits early in Round 1. This is because to draft that high, you have to have a really bad team, and it's rare that a QB fixes that.
If we still have the current regime (I would probably move on), I think Dabs will love the skill set that Sanders has.
Daboll isn't making the call on QB. Neither is Schoen.
I'd bet my house that the Giants would not draft Sanders.
I agree, but when you have the #6 pick you want to have a pretty good chance of becoming "the guy". If we're talking about pipeline and small bets - definitely keep trying stuff, see if you can get lucky or even just get some decent cheap option. At #6 though, the opportunity cost is high. I'm looking for a 30-40% chance that the guy is "the guy" (ie a top 10-ish QB for multiple years).
Like Brady? Or Bart Starr? Or Joe Montana?
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If we still have the current regime (I would probably move on), I think Dabs will love the skill set that Sanders has.
Daboll isn't making the call on QB. Neither is Schoen.
I'd bet my house that the Giants would not draft Sanders.
Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll get to find out. I think we’ll have to trade up if we want him.
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If we still have the current regime (I would probably move on), I think Dabs will love the skill set that Sanders has.
Daboll isn't making the call on QB. Neither is Schoen.
I'd bet my house that the Giants would not draft Sanders.
I'm not trying to be patronizing here, but you seem like a pretty bright guy.
But I don't know how anyone could have watched "Hard Knocks" and concluded Schoen is not in the driver's seat for this organization with all personnel.
For example, when Mara is claiming he is having palpitations because Schoen may make a deal to move up to possibly acquire a QB, how is that not a convincing piece of evidence that Schoen is in charge?
And then Mara walks in Brown's office and recounts the same situation in 2004 when Accorsi decided to draft Eli. There was zero indication in that discussion that Mara made that call...
Or both.
Well, QB4 was right there for the taking in 2024. Let's see how things turn out. I doubt we're in position to get QB1 in 2025.
If true, he needs to go. If he can't identify what he's seeing in Jones, why should he be the one to pick the next franchise QB?
Schoen should have identified Jones as something close to that.
But in your scenario, I would have hoped Mara should/would have said then why not utilize the transition tag to sort out value. Or Franchise tag if he wanted to force the issue.
Well, Schoen convinced Mara to let Barkley, their "most popular" player, walk. And that guy actually put asses in seats and moved merchandise for Mara.
So, yes, per your example, I believe if Schoen had a plan that made sense to replace and transition from Jones, Mara doesn't interfere. But it was never going to get there because Schoen was a sold-on Jones, which is why he offered and signed him to $160M contract. If Mara was really running the show, I believe he would have compelled Schoen in 2022 to pick-up Jones's 5th year option. Why didn't that happen?
Obviously, this is all subjective...
Even though Daboll said publicly he was good and would be cleared for spring team practicing.
Such a scenario runs counter to everything I've observed with this team over many years. It's not how they operate.
Remember who had to be convinced to move on from Phil Simms and Kerry Collins. Those were not GM calls.
QB and head coach are both ownership-level calls. One of the few things Gettleman got right is that the GM of the New York Giants is support staff.
If true, he needs to go. If he can't identify what he's seeing in Jones, why should he be the one to pick the next franchise QB?
I don't think he should. Schoen bought milk because he was responsible for the drinks and perceived it was a good deal.
Now he's the guy who brought reasonably priced milk to a dinner party.
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Everything I've heard is Mara likes Jones, but Schoen made the call, and Mara is appropriately critical of the outcome.
If true, he needs to go. If he can't identify what he's seeing in Jones, why should he be the one to pick the next franchise QB?
The decision being scrutinized here is not Schoen's decision to bring back Jones - it's the how and the eventual price tag. Nobody was really pushing back on the decision to at least try to re-sign DJ after the 2022 season. Certainly not given that we were picking in the 20s in the following year's draft.
Even the knowledgeable pundits who saw the holes in Jones's game back then thought that another year under Daboll could potentially elevate him even further.
2) We have no idea what JJM is going to be since he tore his ACL. The Way Darnold is playing, I highly doubt they won’t try to re-sign him so we might not know how well he’ll play once he does get a shot.
3) Penix hasn’t taken a snap yet. We know nothing about how well he’ll do.
4) Nix is playing well.
People are getting up in arms about the 2025 QB draft class. Maybe none of them are not in Caleb, Daniels and Mayes class. But we weren’t getting them anyway. There’s a lot of prospects in this draft that will be rated higher than JJM, Penix or Nix. A lot can change from now until then.
There was no scenario they could have paid a kings ransom to trade up for one of the top 3? I bet they could of.
They sent an army of people out to Penix's pro day. We may "know nothing" about Penix, but they sure know plenty about Jones.
This is is why you draft a QB- to find out if they can play. If not, you move on and try to find someone else quickly.
I think Nabers was a mistake at 6, but we will find out.
Agree to disagree. If the situation is as you described above, the Giants would take Sanders. In a heartbeat.
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In comment 16666502 IchabodGiant said:
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If we still have the current regime (I would probably move on), I think Dabs will love the skill set that Sanders has.
Daboll isn't making the call on QB. Neither is Schoen.
I'd bet my house that the Giants would not draft Sanders.
Unfortunately I don’t think we’ll get to find out. I think we’ll have to trade up if we want him.
I think if we want any of the QBs we'll have to trade up, because we're going to probably win 4 more games.
Re Sanders, I think Daboll wouldn't mind him, but there's no way Mara would allow Sanders to be the "face of the franchise".
He'd be the face of the franchise.
Stop trying to force feed general disappointment with an owner down some dark path.
I sure hope Shedeur has put his musical ambitions aside. The last two guys who were into making music did not pan out.
He'd be the face of the franchise.
Stop trying to force feed general disappointment with an owner down some dark path.
What "dark path" are you talking about?
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If Sanders or whomever provided the team optimism with wins and inspiring play at QB. Was looked upon well by his teammates and the fans, and his jersey started popping up around the NYC metro.
He'd be the face of the franchise.
Stop trying to force feed general disappointment with an owner down some dark path.
What "dark path" are you talking about?
Your comment...
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In comment 16667078 ThomasG said:
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If Sanders or whomever provided the team optimism with wins and inspiring play at QB. Was looked upon well by his teammates and the fans, and his jersey started popping up around the NYC metro.
He'd be the face of the franchise.
Stop trying to force feed general disappointment with an owner down some dark path.
What "dark path" are you talking about?
Your comment...
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there's no way Mara would allow Sanders to be the "face of the franchise"
Yes. That's something several posters in this topic and others have noted, so it's not just my sole observation.
I think Mara would be open to any of the other QB prospects that we've mentioned as possible first rounders as the face of the franchise. But no way would he go for Sanders.
There is ZERO evidence of what is being suggested. Frankly, those that propose it are embarrassing themselves.
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In comment 16667111 FStubbs said:
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In comment 16667078 ThomasG said:
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If Sanders or whomever provided the team optimism with wins and inspiring play at QB. Was looked upon well by his teammates and the fans, and his jersey started popping up around the NYC metro.
He'd be the face of the franchise.
Stop trying to force feed general disappointment with an owner down some dark path.
What "dark path" are you talking about?
Your comment...
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there's no way Mara would allow Sanders to be the "face of the franchise"
Yes. That's something several posters in this topic and others have noted, so it's not just my sole observation.
I think Mara would be open to any of the other QB prospects that we've mentioned as possible first rounders as the face of the franchise. But no way would he go for Sanders.
Well at least you and several other posters think just as badly alike.
And while it may not be your sole observation this take is a really poor soul observation.
There is ZERO evidence of what is being suggested. Frankly, those that propose it are embarrassing themselves.
Anyone whose watched this team, how they draft players, the comments the Maras have made over the last 2 decades or so, and comments people in the know around the league have made, would know that Sanders is just not what Mara would be comfortable with as QB. Not even if he were consensus #1 and we had the #1 overall pick. Mara would want to trade the pick.
So let me spell out exactly why - the circus surrounding him and his Dad, the off field stuff, his behavior (like throwing teammates under the bus, for a more recent example).
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about this is ridiculous and unfounded. I think it's bullshit. IF Sanders was the CONSENSUS number 1 pick, and Giants were in that spot, they would take him. No doubt.
There is ZERO evidence of what is being suggested. Frankly, those that propose it are embarrassing themselves.
Anyone whose watched this team, how they draft players, the comments the Maras have made over the last 2 decades or so, and comments people in the know around the league have made, would know that Sanders is just not what Mara would be comfortable with as QB. Not even if he were consensus #1 and we had the #1 overall pick. Mara would want to trade the pick.
So let me spell out exactly why - the circus surrounding him and his Dad, the off field stuff, his behavior (like throwing teammates under the bus, for a more recent example).
All the stuff you listed above is being overblown a little bit.
But this is irrelevant to what is being hinted at. And I think you know it. Keep up.
I think it's an open question whether he'd permit a Face of the Franchise to be somebody who doesn't align with those preferences.
I think it's an open question whether he'd permit a Face of the Franchise to be somebody who doesn't align with those preferences.
No, what are those specific preferences?
Is this all about Eli and his memorabilia fraud problems and dragging Mara thru that bad look as the Face of his Franchise?
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that Mara has preferences when it comes to his Face of the Franchise.
I think it's an open question whether he'd permit a Face of the Franchise to be somebody who doesn't align with those preferences.
No, what are those specific preferences?
Is this all about Eli and his memorabilia fraud problems and dragging Mara thru that bad look as the Face of his Franchise?
No one cared about that. It received less attention than a player going to a concert on an off day.
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In comment 16667209 IchabodGiant said:
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about this is ridiculous and unfounded. I think it's bullshit. IF Sanders was the CONSENSUS number 1 pick, and Giants were in that spot, they would take him. No doubt.
There is ZERO evidence of what is being suggested. Frankly, those that propose it are embarrassing themselves.
Anyone whose watched this team, how they draft players, the comments the Maras have made over the last 2 decades or so, and comments people in the know around the league have made, would know that Sanders is just not what Mara would be comfortable with as QB. Not even if he were consensus #1 and we had the #1 overall pick. Mara would want to trade the pick.
So let me spell out exactly why - the circus surrounding him and his Dad, the off field stuff, his behavior (like throwing teammates under the bus, for a more recent example).
All the stuff you listed above is being overblown a little bit.
But this is irrelevant to what is being hinted at. And I think you know it. Keep up.
You state that as if it's a fact but you're wrong. Carry on.