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| Quote: |
| But it really would take something drastic to change his mind, according to sources inside the organization. Maybe if they don't win another game, or players start revolting, or Daboll's press conferences just go off the rails — something like that. His team is feisty, though, so the odds are good he's not going anywhere. But stranger things have happened to this organization in the last 13 years. |
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
Remember, supposedly the doves at 1925 Giants Way didn't like way Daboll conducted himself on the sidelines. So, he has reportedly made a focused effort to act more controlled.
I think that's what we saw on HK as well...
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It was obvious he wanted Daniels. And it was obvious he wasn't thrilled about running it back with Jones.
What kind of plan is that, though? You can't get the quarterback you want, so continue with the dumpster fire you have?
I still can't believe the way they handled the QB position in the offseason. If that's how it bore out, "enter the season with Jones/Lock/DeVito" is not a serious plan. It's like saying "I can't afford business class from JFK to London, so I'm just going to fucking swim there."
GT, I agree 100%. I cannot get over the fact we went into this season with that QB depth chart.
Link - ( New Window )
But what if they were feisty?
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In comment 16666681 Sean said:
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
Remember, supposedly the doves at 1925 Giants Way didn't like way Daboll conducted himself on the sidelines. So, he has reportedly made a focused effort to act more controlled.
I think that's what we saw on HK as well...
You like Daboll, understood. But even if I give you 2022, how does that explain the following?
Country club training camp 2023 followed by obvious roster cutdown mistakes, Eric Gray as punt returner, cutting Crowder, Ezeudu at left tackle and 40-0 to open the season at MetLife. Then there was the first incident with a Graham Gano injury and having him attempt a game winner in the rain while injured. Not to mention his GM (and friend) was forced to listen in on his gameday communications operation because his sideline became a circus.
Fast forward to 2024 and we open with the same inexcusable non-competitive performance, Graham Gano injury incident number 2 and his failure to elevate a healthy kicker, Ezeudu at Left Tackle again, 0-3 in the division so far, non competitive on offense with him calling the plays and clearly going backwards in general.
I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna on this site for many years (even though I’m not) but I do generally lean towards patience and optimism. However, I see a reason for neither right now. Not in any way with Schoen and Daboll.
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In comment 16666686 christian said:
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In comment 16666681 Sean said:
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
Remember, supposedly the doves at 1925 Giants Way didn't like way Daboll conducted himself on the sidelines. So, he has reportedly made a focused effort to act more controlled.
I think that's what we saw on HK as well...
You like Daboll, understood. But even if I give you 2022, how does that explain the following?
Country club training camp 2023 followed by obvious roster cutdown mistakes, Eric Gray as punt returner, cutting Crowder, Ezeudu at left tackle and 40-0 to open the season at MetLife. Then there was the first incident with a Graham Gano injury and having him attempt a game winner in the rain while injured. Not to mention his GM (and friend) was forced to listen in on his gameday communications operation because his sideline became a circus.
Fast forward to 2024 and we open with the same inexcusable non-competitive performance, Graham Gano injury incident number 2 and his failure to elevate a healthy kicker, Ezeudu at Left Tackle again, 0-3 in the division so far, non competitive on offense with him calling the plays and clearly going backwards in general.
I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna on this site for many years (even though I’m not) but I do generally lean towards patience and optimism. However, I see a reason for neither right now. Not in any way with Schoen and Daboll.
Everyone liked this year's training camp. It was "tougher, more physical".
So does the "tough camp" matter? It sounds like something fans just complain about when they have a win/loss result they don't like.
Everyone wants "build thru the draft" until you play picks and they're not successes. Everyone wants "play the kids" until the kids play and the results aren't satisfying.
If we all agree that offensive line coaching was bad (it was) and needed to be changed (it did), and the results of the new offensive line coach thru week 5/6 were good, (they were), then what exactly was the bad decision on seeing if Ezeudu had developed after two years of bad coaching? It wasn't a bad decision. It was a bad *result*.
You like Daboll, understood. But even if I give you 2022, how does that explain the following?
Country club training camp 2023 followed by obvious roster cutdown mistakes, Eric Gray as punt returner, cutting Crowder, Ezeudu at left tackle and 40-0 to open the season at MetLife. Then there was the first incident with a Graham Gano injury and having him attempt a game winner in the rain while injured. Not to mention his GM (and friend) was forced to listen in on his gameday communications operation because his sideline became a circus.
Fast forward to 2024 and we open with the same inexcusable non-competitive performance, Graham Gano injury incident number 2 and his failure to elevate a healthy kicker, Ezeudu at Left Tackle again, 0-3 in the division so far, non competitive on offense with him calling the plays and clearly going backwards in general.
I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna on this site for many years (even though I’m not) but I do generally lean towards patience and optimism. However, I see a reason for neither right now. Not in any way with Schoen and Daboll.
Let me be clearer. I do like Daboll, but I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if we moved on. Of all of the constituent players in this soap opera, I just believe he's shown to be the most competent.
The points you raised about 2023 are fair. But I would counter that Daboll kept the team together and won games with an undrafted free agent rookie QB and a 35-year-old back-up. And with a bottom of the barrel OL. (Ironically, it was probably to the detriment of the team this year because some of those wins - wins I would call meaningless - came at a material toll: draft position...)
The 2024 season hasn't reflected well so far on anyone in this organization.
When it goes bad then shit happens.
The clown show comments and the qb sneak got him fired.
Otherwise he might have made it.
Dabol's a smarter guy.....he'll keep his cool.
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In comment 16666695 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16666686 christian said:
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In comment 16666681 Sean said:
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
Remember, supposedly the doves at 1925 Giants Way didn't like way Daboll conducted himself on the sidelines. So, he has reportedly made a focused effort to act more controlled.
I think that's what we saw on HK as well...
You like Daboll, understood. But even if I give you 2022, how does that explain the following?
Country club training camp 2023 followed by obvious roster cutdown mistakes, Eric Gray as punt returner, cutting Crowder, Ezeudu at left tackle and 40-0 to open the season at MetLife. Then there was the first incident with a Graham Gano injury and having him attempt a game winner in the rain while injured. Not to mention his GM (and friend) was forced to listen in on his gameday communications operation because his sideline became a circus.
Fast forward to 2024 and we open with the same inexcusable non-competitive performance, Graham Gano injury incident number 2 and his failure to elevate a healthy kicker, Ezeudu at Left Tackle again, 0-3 in the division so far, non competitive on offense with him calling the plays and clearly going backwards in general.
I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna on this site for many years (even though I’m not) but I do generally lean towards patience and optimism. However, I see a reason for neither right now. Not in any way with Schoen and Daboll.
Everyone liked this year's training camp. It was "tougher, more physical".
So does the "tough camp" matter? It sounds like something fans just complain about when they have a win/loss result they don't like.
Everyone wants "build thru the draft" until you play picks and they're not successes. Everyone wants "play the kids" until the kids play and the results aren't satisfying.
If we all agree that offensive line coaching was bad (it was) and needed to be changed (it did), and the results of the new offensive line coach thru week 5/6 were good, (they were), then what exactly was the bad decision on seeing if Ezeudu had developed after two years of bad coaching? It wasn't a bad decision. It was a bad *result*.
This camp seemed better optically I guess, but then again many of us were calling for Jones to play the last preseason game, God forbid, and of course he didn’t and came out sucking again.
Why continue with Ezeudu at LT after the disaster of last season? It was Ezeudu who was so non-competitive at the position that Jones’s neck got lit up again. Pugh was memorably “straight off the couch” and better than Ezeudu the minute he showed up. This along with the Gano thing prove to me that Daboll is stubbborn or doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. Not a great sign.
Also, Evan Neal loafing around doing nothing in a lost season, even after Thomas got hurt makes no sense to me. They are lacking any sense of urgency.
Why continue with Ezeudu at LT after the disaster of last season? It was Ezeudu who was so non-competitive at the position that Jones’s neck got lit up again. Pugh was memorably “straight off the couch” and better than Ezeudu the minute he showed up. This along with the Gano thing prove to me that Daboll is stubbborn or doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. Not a great sign.
Also, Evan Neal loafing around doing nothing in a lost season, even after Thomas got hurt makes no sense to me. They are lacking any sense of urgency.
It's the GM who makes the roster. Schoen watches the games, presumably. He could have admitted his mistake in drafting Ezeudu, cut him loose and replaced him with someone more useful.
In addition to the useless Ezeudu, there is the currently useless Neal, whom Schoen also drafted.
Once Schoen went out and got Daboll someone else to play tackle (Hubbard), Daboll played him.
My main issue with Daboll/Schoen is their resume is heavily built around Josh Allen being a freak and a current MVP favorite again. Mahomes is the best player in the league, but Allen is a clear 2nd and doing more of a carry job. Lamar and Burrow are there too.
They tried to convince themselves that Jones’ running/size combo could lead to success in a similar way, they were wrong.
I don’t want to change coaches/FO, but the they’ve swung and missed on QB so far at least. Which is big since a young QB is what got them these jobs.
Short of open rebellion or a Judgian meltdown in front of the press, Schoen and Daboll are gonna be here next year.
With Jones - Its unfair to evaluate him without a OL or WR1
With Daboll - Its unfair to evaluate him without a real QB
I'm going to be frank, I haven't loved everything Daboll has done and I'd still like a little bit more consistency between the well coached and poorly coached games, but we'd have a winning record with a league average QB and he's a better coach than the 3 we fired before him.
Dabs has to really go off the rails to be fired in-season, and it is way too early for there to be serious talk in-house about his chances of return. As someone said, don't believe anything leaking (intentionally or not) at this date.
They'll finish the season with 5 wins pick number 8.
The GM will come out and say it's a 3 QB draft, they won't be able to get any of them and then they'll run the entire thing back claiming that the team and DJ showed great improvement down the stretch finishing 3-4 in their last 7 including a big road win against PHL.
We are are right in line with same cycle we've seen the last decade.
Which one of the cognoscenti was telling everyone what a bargain the Giants got with Jones' contract?
"What are the options at this point?"
Yeah, Bob, that's the problem when you go into the season with Jones, Lock, and DeVito as your QBs.
And also, yeah people on X do to "bat ... nuts" when they've been telling you for 6 years that Jones isn't the guy and you've been condescending and smug in lockstep with the organization.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
What also needs to stop is the unforced errors week in and week out with this offense. It has really hindered the offense and has taken away a couple TD's recently, too.
I'm all for drafting a kid and letting him play, but there really hasn't been offensive development under Daboll. If there is anybody, I'd love to hear it.
vs CAR (Germany)
Bye
vs TB
at DAL
vs NO
It's hard in the NFL to go 2-15, need everything to deconstruct. It's easy to see 3-2 in the next five and NYG is 5-8 and right in line for 6-11 or 7-10. Everyone back including Jones and the injury to Andrew Thomas is the reason the front office thinks the season didn't go better.
It's so easy to see it playing out this way.
It's not even easy to see what's going to happen in just the next game.
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In comment 16666619 Arnie D. said:
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
What also needs to stop is the unforced errors week in and week out with this offense. It has really hindered the offense and has taken away a couple TD's recently, too.
I'm all for drafting a kid and letting him play, but there really hasn't been offensive development under Daboll. If there is anybody, I'd love to hear it.
There was a ton in 2022. SB got better, A new QB situation will enhance that.
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
What needs to stop is the constant hiring of unqualified people.
You get what you pay for.
Cheap cost controlled GM. Cheap cost controlled HC. Shitty fucking results.
Keep looking for that white whale there Jonny.
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And then they fired him.
This is true, however, Daboll is a playoff coach and former coach of the year. Judge didn't sniff the success Daboll has had here. I think that buys him enough time with Mara. (Not saying I agree with him)
Certainly feels like the organization is giving Schoen and Daboll a pass based on Jones and they get to reboot the reboot next off season.
In their very next 10 quarters of football, the team was outscored 98-7.
I'm still waiting for Mara to again say "We're back!", and for Daboll to again lead the Giants to the playoffs and to again win Coach of the Year.
I can't believe people here the nerve to question any fan's take that the owner might be looking to save money first before doing everything in his power to win.
We keep on questioning the strings being pulled behind the scenes. And maybe some of that is true and that belief or fear is warranted. Still, the biggest question of all is whether ownership does everything within its financial power to ensure the best possible product is being put on that field every week. IS it? Can you really and truly say so? Ever since the new stadium was built this team hasn't been the same. Remember there were articles detailing that the financial ship for Mara and Tisch took on a lot of water those first few years.
The day they sign the most expensive vet HC/GM combo is the day I shut my mouth. Ill wait.
The team is still playing hard. The context is simple: Coaches can lose a team when they are not winning, you don't tend to keep coaches where their team's roll over.
I am not saying to keep Daboll or not, nor am I defending him here. I just was a bit surprised that fans are having a difficult time with the term 'feisty' in the context that it was presented.
Saved me from saying it. You are precisely correct.
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and of course Mara stinks.
That's actually a reasonable conclusion.
But Daboll stinks less than the others because he coached the team to the playoffs in 2022 with Gettleman's roster.
The more Schoen has put his fingerprints on the roster, the poorer the team has performed. Did Daboll suddenly forget how to coach or are we seeing the impact of Schoen putting together his roster?
More the undeniable and inevitable fall back to earth of our current QB after an aberrant 2022 season.
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In comment 16666619 Arnie D. said:
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
What needs to stop is the constant hiring of unqualified people.
are you dumb, do you not get the message?
2.5 years is not enough body of work to make that evaluation.
cut the shit.
Simply put, if this team was locked into a bidding war for a big time HC in the off-season, now or in 25-26-27, against the likes of Dallas or Philly? I think we'd lose out. If Belichick told teams he would go to the highest bidder, we lose out.
Just my take. I don't have an ax to grind with Mara nor do I want to get into a debate. I just don't think we can hang with the big boys at times. And it shows. This isn't about the cap.
We’re supposed to give up on this so that idiot Mara can grope his way to another GM hire?
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In comment 16667258 Rory said:
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In comment 16666619 Arnie D. said:
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
What needs to stop is the constant hiring of unqualified people.
are you dumb, do you not get the message?
2.5 years is not enough body of work to make that evaluation.
cut the shit.
I get the message, it's just that when you're the one delivering it it sort of invalidates the whole premise.
Agree. That said, the elite and consistently excellent teams *all have misses*.
The 49ers whiffed on Lance. Belichick could fill a dumpster with failed offensive players and Mac Jones. The Ravens miss on WRs left and right. The Chiefs totally missed on their entire offensive line a few years ago.
Its just like the team on the field. One miss or drop is received like the world is ending because they cannot score points, so they dont win games.
It just goes back to not being able to throw the football.
I'll add also that it's telling that Barkley and McKinney are doing so well in their new destinations. I didn't want either guy back, but what does it say that their utilization has gone through the roof now that they've left the Giants?
I'll add also that it's telling that Barkley and McKinney are doing so well in their new destinations. I didn't want either guy back, but what does it say that their utilization has gone through the roof now that they've left the Giants?
They aren't the ones that are telling. Bobby Johnson, Ben Bredeson, those two are much more telling.
Who know what Mara thinks at any point in time? This is an owner who said on 1/16/23 that "We're back!".
In their very next 10 quarters of football, the team was outscored 98-7.
And to emphasize the point about Mara, "WE'RE BACK!" was his exclamation after winning a WILD CARD game. Not the Super Bowl. Not the NFC Championship Game. Wild Card.
I'll add also that it's telling that Barkley and McKinney are doing so well in their new destinations. I didn't want either guy back, but what does it say that their utilization has gone through the roof now that they've left the Giants?
Two of our better players that wanted to be paid more than the Giants were willing are playing well in their new homes?
I think it says, "not really a surprise" to most. Does it say something else to you?
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I just never come away from Giants games feeling "this team is well coached". The entire operation feels shaky - I don't have faith that they're communicating well, that they're prepared from a roster standpoint, or that they have a full understanding of clock and timeout management.
I'll add also that it's telling that Barkley and McKinney are doing so well in their new destinations. I didn't want either guy back, but what does it say that their utilization has gone through the roof now that they've left the Giants?
Two of our better players that wanted to be paid more than the Giants were willing are playing well in their new homes?
I think it says, "not really a surprise" to most. Does it say something else to you?
It tells me they weren't well utilized while they were here.
They both may be more congenial than their predecessors, but posterity will ultimately show that Schoen is no better and may actually be worse than Gettleman, and Daboll is no better than McAdoo/Shurmur/Judge. There is zero need for patience when it is crystal clear what the problem is. And now, after six years of hearing that the quarterback could not be evaluated properly because he was limited by his coaches, weapons and OL, we are hearing that the GM and Head Coach can't be evaluated properly because they are limited by their quarterback! The very quarterback for whom they themselves insanely committed! It was crystal clear who DJ was before he was drafted. He is exactly who he always was. There was never a need for patience to evaluate DJ. It was pure delusion from the start. And likewise, it is crystal clear right now that Schoen and Daboll will not be leading this franchise to the promised land. No further data needed.
Disparaging people who have been off these two guys since the DJ contract is gaslighting of the highest order. Why? Because the decision making apparatus of this ownership now goes beyond the traditional definition of insanity of doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results. It has now evolved to this ownership knowing with certainty that what they're doing is completely idiotic, but still, somehow, they just can't stop doing it.
Patience for the sake of patience rather than accepting the blinding insight of the utter obvious is one of the dumbest takes I have ever seen on this site. Patience is not a virtue in this sport, it is just subterfuge for concealing incompetence. Delusion, denial and self-preservation are nothing more than the three headed Cerberus that keeps this franchise trapped in NFL hell.
Xavier played every down at Safety last year for NYG. Is he playing somewhere else for Green Bay?
I'll add also that it's telling that Barkley and McKinney are doing so well in their new destinations. I didn't want either guy back, but what does it say that their utilization has gone through the roof now that they've left the Giants?
Absolute no-shows on opening night for 2 straight seasons is exhibit A. I get it, practice time pre-season is limited, but every other team is subject to the same rules
Kevin O’Connell with the Vikes was basically mocking the Giants after our week 1 no show this year, about how his team was better prepared and in better shape
What's drastic about a year that's been as consistent and equal as the past 6 years?