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| Quote: |
| But it really would take something drastic to change his mind, according to sources inside the organization. Maybe if they don't win another game, or players start revolting, or Daboll's press conferences just go off the rails — something like that. His team is feisty, though, so the odds are good he's not going anywhere. But stranger things have happened to this organization in the last 13 years. |
Although, it does feel 100% different this time. Schoen and Daboll are managing and coaching like this year doesn’t matter to them.
A logical conclusion can be drawn that it doesn’t.
+1, I agree.
Daboll has people open, DJ just can't find them, or hit them, unless they are his beloved 5 yd slant. The team is competing. DJ is the cancer here not Daboll IMO. Get a functioning NFL QB and we are contending. Its all the QB at this point
Although, it does feel 100% different this time. Schoen and Daboll are managing and coaching like this year doesn’t matter to them.
A logical conclusion can be drawn that it doesn’t.
Yeah, it is odd. Like ok, Jones is beat of bad so we just play him and what happens happens.
I think we sign a Vet and draft a guy..
I would explore getting Richardson though. Colts basically said Flacco for starting for rest of the year.
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
+1, I agree.
Daboll has people open, DJ just can't find them, or hit them, unless they are his beloved 5 yd slant. The team is competing. DJ is the cancer here not Daboll IMO. Get a functioning NFL QB and we are contending. Its all the QB at this point
A QB that Schoen and Daboll signed, brought back again after 2 neck injuries, and who they ultimately have kept around for their entire 3 year tenure.
It must be nice to be able to distance yourself from your own failures the way Schoen and Daboll have here. They’re doing a wonderful job at that.
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
+1, I agree.
Daboll has people open, DJ just can't find them, or hit them, unless they are his beloved 5 yd slant. The team is competing. DJ is the cancer here not Daboll IMO. Get a functioning NFL QB and we are contending. Its all the QB at this point
So is there no accountability for giving "the cancer" the largest contract in franchise history (by gross dollars and percent of cap)?
It means the team is Daniel Jones, duh!
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In comment 16666537 ChrisRick said:
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Do fans really not know what 'feisty' is referring to?
The team is still playing hard. The context is simple: Coaches can lose a team when they are not winning, you don't tend to keep coaches where their team's roll over.
I am not saying to keep Daboll or not, nor am I defending him here. I just was a bit surprised that fans are having a difficult time with the term 'feisty' in the context that it was presented.
People know what feisty means. The point is it's bullshit.
For fucks sakes, I am agreeing with you again ;)!
Thanks for the Fiesty clarification and let me be more clear- I don't give a FUCK.. This team was S T D Monday night- Stupid, Timid and Depressed (or Depressing).
BTW- Pittsburgh is that great of team and Wilson wasn't great a number of times and yet was light years better than what we had.
This is a barometer game for one single reason, one single John Wayne holding on by a root over the edge of Cliff reason (for Mara) and that is this:
Jones:
68 games played he has 68 TD Passes
8 games against Washington he has 12 TDs
Other 60 games he has 56 TD passes That is less than 1 TD pass per game.
Against Washington- 1.5 TD passes per game
Jones has 24 total wins and 5 of those have come against Washington..
If Jones struggles here, against Washington and at home it will be the last glimmer of hope some are holding on to.
1 game in 2019 skews his numbers against Washington where he put up 5 TDs. So that's 7 in 7 games since?
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In comment 16666619 Arnie D. said:
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
+1, I agree.
Daboll has people open, DJ just can't find them, or hit them, unless they are his beloved 5 yd slant. The team is competing. DJ is the cancer here not Daboll IMO. Get a functioning NFL QB and we are contending. Its all the QB at this point
A QB that Schoen and Daboll signed, brought back again after 2 neck injuries, and who they ultimately have kept around for their entire 3 year tenure.
It must be nice to be able to distance yourself from your own failures the way Schoen and Daboll have here. They’re doing a wonderful job at that.
I think sticking with Jones this year was a Mara decision. They got him a WR and an improved OL, and it was his year to sink or swim. I believe, abased on Hard Knocks, that Daboll was against this, but it wasn't his decision. Finally I think he was told to do his best with Jones this year, and if it doesn't work out then he gets to pick his new QB for next year.
I agree this is all my opinon, and based on just reading between the lines of what I have seen and read. However everyone else's statements on here are opinions also. No one knows the real conversations that have happened.
That's actually a reasonable conclusion.
But Daboll stinks less than the others because he coached the team to the playoffs in 2022 with Gettleman's roster.
The more Schoen has put his fingerprints on the roster, the poorer the team has performed. Did Daboll suddenly forget how to coach or are we seeing the impact of Schoen putting together his roster?
"Everything sucks" isnt considered analysis, its dis-satisfied customer leaving a review. There are elements to this team that dont suck, that they did get right, and because they lose games they should win due to having no capable passer, it gets lumped into fire everyone, burn it down.
They hit on every improvement they tried to make, served it to the QB to go win games with, and he cannot stop pissing the bed.
Daboll was one voice in a 3-person triangle making the decision on daniel jones and nobody, anywhere knows what he actually thinks.
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and of course Mara stinks.
That's actually a reasonable conclusion.
But Daboll stinks less than the others because he coached the team to the playoffs in 2022 with Gettleman's roster.
The more Schoen has put his fingerprints on the roster, the poorer the team has performed. Did Daboll suddenly forget how to coach or are we seeing the impact of Schoen putting together his roster?
I think it's possible Daboll just got off to an anomalous fast start due to a weak schedule. He's 12-24-1 since the 6-1 start.
We spotted Jones's 2022 as false, we should probably do the same for Daboll.
Two years in a row his team entered the season unprepared, and two years in a row his roster mismanagement directly resulted in losses.
I don't think anything we're seeing now is any better than what we saw under Gettleman, Shurmur, and Judge. The only difference is no one sounds as stupid as Gettleman when they talk.
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0-4, outscored 93-31 in four home games.
0-3, outscored 69-36 in three divisional games.
Feisty.
That is 'something drastic.' What more do they need?
+1. If what we've been seeing isn't drastic, what is?
The others haven’t hit rock bottom yet.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
It was obvious he wanted Daniels. And it was obvious he wasn't thrilled about running it back with Jones.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
What kind of plan is that, though? You can't get the quarterback you want, so continue with the dumpster fire you have?
I still can't believe the way they handled the QB position in the offseason. If that's how it bore out, "enter the season with Jones/Lock/DeVito" is not a serious plan. It's like saying "I can't afford business class from JFK to London, so I'm just going to fucking swim there."
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
Remember, supposedly the doves at 1925 Giants Way didn't like way Daboll conducted himself on the sidelines. So, he has reportedly made a focused effort to act more controlled.
I think that's what we saw on HK as well...
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It was obvious he wanted Daniels. And it was obvious he wasn't thrilled about running it back with Jones.
What kind of plan is that, though? You can't get the quarterback you want, so continue with the dumpster fire you have?
I still can't believe the way they handled the QB position in the offseason. If that's how it bore out, "enter the season with Jones/Lock/DeVito" is not a serious plan. It's like saying "I can't afford business class from JFK to London, so I'm just going to fucking swim there."
GT, I agree 100%. I cannot get over the fact we went into this season with that QB depth chart.
Link - ( New Window )
But what if they were feisty?
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In comment 16666681 Sean said:
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
Remember, supposedly the doves at 1925 Giants Way didn't like way Daboll conducted himself on the sidelines. So, he has reportedly made a focused effort to act more controlled.
I think that's what we saw on HK as well...
You like Daboll, understood. But even if I give you 2022, how does that explain the following?
Country club training camp 2023 followed by obvious roster cutdown mistakes, Eric Gray as punt returner, cutting Crowder, Ezeudu at left tackle and 40-0 to open the season at MetLife. Then there was the first incident with a Graham Gano injury and having him attempt a game winner in the rain while injured. Not to mention his GM (and friend) was forced to listen in on his gameday communications operation because his sideline became a circus.
Fast forward to 2024 and we open with the same inexcusable non-competitive performance, Graham Gano injury incident number 2 and his failure to elevate a healthy kicker, Ezeudu at Left Tackle again, 0-3 in the division so far, non competitive on offense with him calling the plays and clearly going backwards in general.
I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna on this site for many years (even though I’m not) but I do generally lean towards patience and optimism. However, I see a reason for neither right now. Not in any way with Schoen and Daboll.
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In comment 16666686 christian said:
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In comment 16666681 Sean said:
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
Remember, supposedly the doves at 1925 Giants Way didn't like way Daboll conducted himself on the sidelines. So, he has reportedly made a focused effort to act more controlled.
I think that's what we saw on HK as well...
You like Daboll, understood. But even if I give you 2022, how does that explain the following?
Country club training camp 2023 followed by obvious roster cutdown mistakes, Eric Gray as punt returner, cutting Crowder, Ezeudu at left tackle and 40-0 to open the season at MetLife. Then there was the first incident with a Graham Gano injury and having him attempt a game winner in the rain while injured. Not to mention his GM (and friend) was forced to listen in on his gameday communications operation because his sideline became a circus.
Fast forward to 2024 and we open with the same inexcusable non-competitive performance, Graham Gano injury incident number 2 and his failure to elevate a healthy kicker, Ezeudu at Left Tackle again, 0-3 in the division so far, non competitive on offense with him calling the plays and clearly going backwards in general.
I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna on this site for many years (even though I’m not) but I do generally lean towards patience and optimism. However, I see a reason for neither right now. Not in any way with Schoen and Daboll.
Everyone liked this year's training camp. It was "tougher, more physical".
So does the "tough camp" matter? It sounds like something fans just complain about when they have a win/loss result they don't like.
Everyone wants "build thru the draft" until you play picks and they're not successes. Everyone wants "play the kids" until the kids play and the results aren't satisfying.
If we all agree that offensive line coaching was bad (it was) and needed to be changed (it did), and the results of the new offensive line coach thru week 5/6 were good, (they were), then what exactly was the bad decision on seeing if Ezeudu had developed after two years of bad coaching? It wasn't a bad decision. It was a bad *result*.
You like Daboll, understood. But even if I give you 2022, how does that explain the following?
Country club training camp 2023 followed by obvious roster cutdown mistakes, Eric Gray as punt returner, cutting Crowder, Ezeudu at left tackle and 40-0 to open the season at MetLife. Then there was the first incident with a Graham Gano injury and having him attempt a game winner in the rain while injured. Not to mention his GM (and friend) was forced to listen in on his gameday communications operation because his sideline became a circus.
Fast forward to 2024 and we open with the same inexcusable non-competitive performance, Graham Gano injury incident number 2 and his failure to elevate a healthy kicker, Ezeudu at Left Tackle again, 0-3 in the division so far, non competitive on offense with him calling the plays and clearly going backwards in general.
I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna on this site for many years (even though I’m not) but I do generally lean towards patience and optimism. However, I see a reason for neither right now. Not in any way with Schoen and Daboll.
Let me be clearer. I do like Daboll, but I wouldn't lose a minute of sleep if we moved on. Of all of the constituent players in this soap opera, I just believe he's shown to be the most competent.
The points you raised about 2023 are fair. But I would counter that Daboll kept the team together and won games with an undrafted free agent rookie QB and a 35-year-old back-up. And with a bottom of the barrel OL. (Ironically, it was probably to the detriment of the team this year because some of those wins - wins I would call meaningless - came at a material toll: draft position...)
The 2024 season hasn't reflected well so far on anyone in this organization.
When it goes bad then shit happens.
The clown show comments and the qb sneak got him fired.
Otherwise he might have made it.
Dabol's a smarter guy.....he'll keep his cool.
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In comment 16666695 bw in dc said:
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In comment 16666686 christian said:
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In comment 16666681 Sean said:
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I like Daboll and I like his style of offense. I really want him to succeed, but he just hasn't.
For as fiery as we see Daboll on game day, I wonder why he seemed so passive on HK regarding QB.
Either HBO did a great job of orchestrating the character, or Daboll truly is a passenger on Schoen's boat.
Remember, supposedly the doves at 1925 Giants Way didn't like way Daboll conducted himself on the sidelines. So, he has reportedly made a focused effort to act more controlled.
I think that's what we saw on HK as well...
You like Daboll, understood. But even if I give you 2022, how does that explain the following?
Country club training camp 2023 followed by obvious roster cutdown mistakes, Eric Gray as punt returner, cutting Crowder, Ezeudu at left tackle and 40-0 to open the season at MetLife. Then there was the first incident with a Graham Gano injury and having him attempt a game winner in the rain while injured. Not to mention his GM (and friend) was forced to listen in on his gameday communications operation because his sideline became a circus.
Fast forward to 2024 and we open with the same inexcusable non-competitive performance, Graham Gano injury incident number 2 and his failure to elevate a healthy kicker, Ezeudu at Left Tackle again, 0-3 in the division so far, non competitive on offense with him calling the plays and clearly going backwards in general.
I’ve been accused of being a Pollyanna on this site for many years (even though I’m not) but I do generally lean towards patience and optimism. However, I see a reason for neither right now. Not in any way with Schoen and Daboll.
Everyone liked this year's training camp. It was "tougher, more physical".
So does the "tough camp" matter? It sounds like something fans just complain about when they have a win/loss result they don't like.
Everyone wants "build thru the draft" until you play picks and they're not successes. Everyone wants "play the kids" until the kids play and the results aren't satisfying.
If we all agree that offensive line coaching was bad (it was) and needed to be changed (it did), and the results of the new offensive line coach thru week 5/6 were good, (they were), then what exactly was the bad decision on seeing if Ezeudu had developed after two years of bad coaching? It wasn't a bad decision. It was a bad *result*.
This camp seemed better optically I guess, but then again many of us were calling for Jones to play the last preseason game, God forbid, and of course he didn’t and came out sucking again.
Why continue with Ezeudu at LT after the disaster of last season? It was Ezeudu who was so non-competitive at the position that Jones’s neck got lit up again. Pugh was memorably “straight off the couch” and better than Ezeudu the minute he showed up. This along with the Gano thing prove to me that Daboll is stubbborn or doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. Not a great sign.
Also, Evan Neal loafing around doing nothing in a lost season, even after Thomas got hurt makes no sense to me. They are lacking any sense of urgency.
Why continue with Ezeudu at LT after the disaster of last season? It was Ezeudu who was so non-competitive at the position that Jones’s neck got lit up again. Pugh was memorably “straight off the couch” and better than Ezeudu the minute he showed up. This along with the Gano thing prove to me that Daboll is stubbborn or doesn’t seem to learn from his mistakes. Not a great sign.
Also, Evan Neal loafing around doing nothing in a lost season, even after Thomas got hurt makes no sense to me. They are lacking any sense of urgency.
It's the GM who makes the roster. Schoen watches the games, presumably. He could have admitted his mistake in drafting Ezeudu, cut him loose and replaced him with someone more useful.
In addition to the useless Ezeudu, there is the currently useless Neal, whom Schoen also drafted.
Once Schoen went out and got Daboll someone else to play tackle (Hubbard), Daboll played him.
My main issue with Daboll/Schoen is their resume is heavily built around Josh Allen being a freak and a current MVP favorite again. Mahomes is the best player in the league, but Allen is a clear 2nd and doing more of a carry job. Lamar and Burrow are there too.
They tried to convince themselves that Jones’ running/size combo could lead to success in a similar way, they were wrong.
I don’t want to change coaches/FO, but the they’ve swung and missed on QB so far at least. Which is big since a young QB is what got them these jobs.
Short of open rebellion or a Judgian meltdown in front of the press, Schoen and Daboll are gonna be here next year.
With Jones - Its unfair to evaluate him without a OL or WR1
With Daboll - Its unfair to evaluate him without a real QB
I'm going to be frank, I haven't loved everything Daboll has done and I'd still like a little bit more consistency between the well coached and poorly coached games, but we'd have a winning record with a league average QB and he's a better coach than the 3 we fired before him.
Dabs has to really go off the rails to be fired in-season, and it is way too early for there to be serious talk in-house about his chances of return. As someone said, don't believe anything leaking (intentionally or not) at this date.
They'll finish the season with 5 wins pick number 8.
The GM will come out and say it's a 3 QB draft, they won't be able to get any of them and then they'll run the entire thing back claiming that the team and DJ showed great improvement down the stretch finishing 3-4 in their last 7 including a big road win against PHL.
We are are right in line with same cycle we've seen the last decade.
Which one of the cognoscenti was telling everyone what a bargain the Giants got with Jones' contract?
"What are the options at this point?"
Yeah, Bob, that's the problem when you go into the season with Jones, Lock, and DeVito as your QBs.
And also, yeah people on X do to "bat ... nuts" when they've been telling you for 6 years that Jones isn't the guy and you've been condescending and smug in lockstep with the organization.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
What also needs to stop is the unforced errors week in and week out with this offense. It has really hindered the offense and has taken away a couple TD's recently, too.
I'm all for drafting a kid and letting him play, but there really hasn't been offensive development under Daboll. If there is anybody, I'd love to hear it.
vs CAR (Germany)
Bye
vs TB
at DAL
vs NO
It's hard in the NFL to go 2-15, need everything to deconstruct. It's easy to see 3-2 in the next five and NYG is 5-8 and right in line for 6-11 or 7-10. Everyone back including Jones and the injury to Andrew Thomas is the reason the front office thinks the season didn't go better.
It's so easy to see it playing out this way.
It's not even easy to see what's going to happen in just the next game.
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In comment 16666619 Arnie D. said:
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
What also needs to stop is the unforced errors week in and week out with this offense. It has really hindered the offense and has taken away a couple TD's recently, too.
I'm all for drafting a kid and letting him play, but there really hasn't been offensive development under Daboll. If there is anybody, I'd love to hear it.
There was a ton in 2022. SB got better, A new QB situation will enhance that.
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keeping Schoen and Daboll on. Replace Jones with a QB Daboll can develop and let’s go.
glad to see a fan who gets it. sign of intelligence is refreshing to see.
this constant change shit needs to stop.
What needs to stop is the constant hiring of unqualified people.
You get what you pay for.
Cheap cost controlled GM. Cheap cost controlled HC. Shitty fucking results.
Keep looking for that white whale there Jonny.
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And then they fired him.
This is true, however, Daboll is a playoff coach and former coach of the year. Judge didn't sniff the success Daboll has had here. I think that buys him enough time with Mara. (Not saying I agree with him)
Certainly feels like the organization is giving Schoen and Daboll a pass based on Jones and they get to reboot the reboot next off season.
In their very next 10 quarters of football, the team was outscored 98-7.
I'm still waiting for Mara to again say "We're back!", and for Daboll to again lead the Giants to the playoffs and to again win Coach of the Year.
I can't believe people here the nerve to question any fan's take that the owner might be looking to save money first before doing everything in his power to win.
We keep on questioning the strings being pulled behind the scenes. And maybe some of that is true and that belief or fear is warranted. Still, the biggest question of all is whether ownership does everything within its financial power to ensure the best possible product is being put on that field every week. IS it? Can you really and truly say so? Ever since the new stadium was built this team hasn't been the same. Remember there were articles detailing that the financial ship for Mara and Tisch took on a lot of water those first few years.
The day they sign the most expensive vet HC/GM combo is the day I shut my mouth. Ill wait.