On Art's latest podcast he suggested the Giants approach both players with modestly aggressive contract extensions before the trade deadline to see if they would re-sign for 2-3 years at reasonable numbers. His thought was they might go for it as they are both under 30 and may not find FA too receptive (injuries, drops, etc).
Interesting thought process as in order to build out this roster it would be good to retain some talent and not have to backfill these spots.
I don't know if these guys would do it, but I see the value from the Giants point of view.
This is only Ojulari's 4th season. He is 24 years old and plays a premium position, and has shown promise when healthy. I'm not in favor of trading that away for a 5th or 6th round draft choice if he is willing to resign at a reasonable price
Creating new holes isn't going to get them to winning any faster. Ojulari is 24, players in the draft might be older. You shed bad players - not good players.
It's like to cost more $$ or draft capital to replace these 2 players in areas of high importance. This might be a creative way to focus all efforts on QB. Oline, DT, and CB.
John I hear you about the scourge of losing and players who may not be part of the solution, but if we apply that rationale across the team, we may only have the 2024 draft class and a couple FA's/traded-for players left!
But maybe that's what you're looking for. It is Halloween and all...
Given how unhappy he was that the Giants wouldn't renegotiate his deal, I don't think he'll be too quick to sign without testing the market.
If these guys are willing to sign at a reasonable level, do it. If not try to trade.
Treading water sucks. I'd prepare to move on, trade them. I could NYG trying to keep them, that's how they roll. Hang onto the past, hope for the best, etc.
I'm a little less keen on resigning Ojulari because of his injury history, but not averse to doing so if the price is reasonable.
I would look to re-sign both,and see what happens with comp picks if they can't reach a deal. Doubtful they get any with plenty of needs and not many FA, but a 6th doesn't do much for me.
I'm a little less keen on resigning Ojulari because of his injury history, but not averse to doing so if the price is reasonable.
I 100% agree with you on the WRs. Think about Slayton this way... He is a 700 yd receiver under DJ. A competent QB grows that to 1K. He will be a good WR2 after Nabers.
I'm more keen on Ojulari. While not good that he is injured often, that probably helps in contract negotiations. Let him bet on himself for a 1-2 year contract, and we deal with his success or failure in the future when DJ is off the books.
Harry Carson, Brad Benson, and George Martin May disagree with this approach.
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at this point we have to make changes and those changes are to shed players who have been "losing" for a while. Slayton and Ojulari are very similar to Jones in that they have been losing players across multiple seasons and HC's.. No, time to shed those players and build anew with our younger players and player brought in from outside.
seems like an emotional take
You mean it’s not perfectly reasonable to replace productive young veterans with late round rookies who need years to develop? Oh wait, we expect them all to be fully developed by the end of their first CBA abbreviated camp…..with a whole new coaching staff and scheme.
Of course we could bring in FA’s too, but they can only be young, developed, and from winning organizations. I’m sure there’s lots of those out there. And we can afford ‘em cuz we’ll have a rookie QB who’s going to flourish in this environment!
The goal is to align career peaks with winning windows and salaries. If you can sign Ojulari and Slayton for market contracts you do it because they are young and productive. If you have to pay them a big second contract, you try to trade them for picks.
But again, using the "losing player" argument means you are fully behind trading Lawrence and Thomas as they fit that description. In fact there is more of a case to trade Lawrence as 360 lb players typically don't have long, productive careers and you can argue his prime window is closing in 2-3 years.
Status quo!
I would try to extend Slayton as he is a solid #2 receiver, and a solid pro. He’s going to get a decent contract but I’m willing to pony up money for him.
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at this point we have to make changes and those changes are to shed players who have been "losing" for a while. Slayton and Ojulari are very similar to Jones in that they have been losing players across multiple seasons and HC's.. No, time to shed those players and build anew with our younger players and player brought in from outside.
This is only Ojulari's 4th season. He is 24 years old and plays a premium position, and has shown promise when healthy. I'm not in favor of trading that away for a 5th or 6th round draft choice if he is willing to resign at a reasonable price
Ojulari is a free agent this offseason. This team will not win this year. If you want him back you can still offer him a contract in free agency, because he will likely test the market.
However, whoever signs him is also likely to make a foolish investment. He is not a good edge setter, which I can live with, you can be an effective situational player. But he also has not shown to be a durable player. Remember the Parcells quote, "the most important ability is availability."
Get what you can for him. If the Giants trade up, all of the draft capital they can get is useful. Even an extra 5th is good because you might be able to use that pick to do multiple trade ups as teams have done in the past in preparation for a more significant move in the first round.
Giants will become a lot cheaper at the QB position very soon imv so they can make these kind of deals. Just don't overpay and have some outs after a couple years.
As good as Pittsburgh is, the Giants had one excellent chance late for a TD(Okereke's fumble recovery) and even made a half decent 2 minute drive with Jones as QB until he shit the bed as usual.
After this week Nabers will surpass the number of targets Slayton has had in each of the past two years, why are you paying a third WR for that production? Slayton is on pace to finish third in targets behind Malik and Wandale.
Why do we fall for this over and over.
He's been about as consistently average as they come.
Ojulari is a good pass rusher but his overall skills as an Edge are not there. His value is as a specialist. Slayton is much more productive but is #3 WR in most offenses.
Treading water sucks. I'd prepare to move on, trade them. I could NYG trying to keep them, that's how they roll. Hang onto the past, hope for the best, etc.
You also could suggest they have to do with the losing. I would say before them the backup corners, no second DL, rookie TE needing to grow, backup punter, backup kicker, backup LT, and Jones are much more to blame on the lost.
Instead of creating two new holes and setting yourself up to tread water even longer,bring them back, and then focus on all of that.
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at this point we have to make changes and those changes are to shed players who have been "losing" for a while. Slayton and Ojulari are very similar to Jones in that they have been losing players across multiple seasons and HC's.. No, time to shed those players and build anew with our younger players and player brought in from outside.
This is only Ojulari's 4th season. He is 24 years old and plays a premium position, and has shown promise when healthy. I'm not in favor of trading that away for a 5th or 6th round draft choice if he is willing to resign at a reasonable price
Kind of agree. Azeez seems to have matured both physically and mentally. He is young and you win in this league with deep pass rush groups.
Too injured. Not enough production to know if he can produce consistently. Not good against the run.
Maybe for the cheaper side of reasonable. I'd rather let him finish the year, see how he did overall, and offer accordingly.
Slayton is a known commodity. His cap # this year is 8 mil (6 AAV). That's borderline above reasonable for a guy with the drops. He wants more. Giants haven't seemed to be excited with him. Considering that Hyatt seems a bust, Robinson is a meh, and I couldn't tell you any other WR on the roster other than Nabers, trading (not re-signing) Slayton leaves the team mighty thin in that corp). Offer away, but he knows his value is unlikely to drop, sans injury, so he won't bite. The only thing in his favor is that Robinson/Hyatt have shown it isn't easy to just throw a dart and hit a decent WR. I absolutely disagree with jvm. Slayton is the type WR who holds value. I quibble about the price, and don't like the drops, but Slayton is a positive on the team.
But I would trade KT before the deadline. He's still young and has pass rushing value, but I think he's at his ceiling.
The problem is he's really just pretty good, but nowhere near great. He's in that zone between a JAG and a really good player. Does anybody really think he's going to take a big next step?
Ojulari doesn't interest me for a couple of reasons. One, he has yet to stay healthy. So, a couple of good games filling in isn't enough to convince me. Two, and more importantly, is I still don't think he is a very good player overall. Yes, he has finally gotten decent pressure/sacks. But, he is still an undisciplined edge player. He has been exposed in the running game and I don't think that's changing any time soon.
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which needs to be scrubbed. They're playing more now mostly due to injuries and/or other hopefuls not stepping up. Make no mistake here, NYG is nowhere.
Treading water sucks. I'd prepare to move on, trade them. I could NYG trying to keep them, that's how they roll. Hang onto the past, hope for the best, etc.
You also could suggest they have to do with the losing. I would say before them the backup corners, no second DL, rookie TE needing to grow, backup punter, backup kicker, backup LT, and Jones are much more to blame on the lost.
Instead of creating two new holes and setting yourself up to tread water even longer,bring them back, and then focus on all of that.
That's how the Giants think and operate, so you probably will get your wish.
I don't agree, neither is worth wringing hands over, especially for a new extension.
Both of those players would need to be replaced.
Who replaces Slayton and Ojulari? Chances are slim they could be replaced by a 5th or 6th round pick.
Both of those players would need to be replaced.
Who replaces Slayton and Ojulari? Chances are slim they could be replaced by a 5th or 6th round pick.
I'm not opposed to an extension, but while you argue letting them walk or trading them for "not much" as "good" players is a mistake, one could also argue that one or both is not that good. I think a much stronger argument can be made for Slayton than Ojulari.
I think holding losing against any one player is silly. I hope the Giants are looking at three things:
1) Past and justified projection for production
2) Past and justified projection for durability
3) Fit and contribution off the field
If those 3 things check, then start working towards market value.
OTC (which I think uses a flawed, but directionally good criteria) values Slayton relative to the position at 14M AAV.
Guys who are a lock for 700 yards under 90 targets get paid.
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but YTD, PFF has Ojulari rated 75th as the Edge spot. KT? 79th.
First, I think little of the source. But, that would say more about KT than Ojulari, in my opinion.
I agree. Which is why I said I would trade KT by the deadline. If Ojulari can stay healthy, he can the job KT does.
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In comment 16667681 bw in dc said:
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but YTD, PFF has Ojulari rated 75th as the Edge spot. KT? 79th.
First, I think little of the source. But, that would say more about KT than Ojulari, in my opinion.
I agree. Which is why I said I would trade KT by the deadline. If Ojulari can stay healthy, he can the job KT does.
There are some really good players on this team - Lawrence in particular is incredible. But it doesn't matter.
Keep both, draft a qb. This team is a lot better with a real qb…