When Kerry Collins was first signed

I wanted him to start STAT.

People shit on KC for his lack of mobility, but he was a damn good QB who led us to a Super Bowl. You could do a helluva lot worse.

KC had been the QB for the Panther when they went to the NFC Championship game against Green Bay, so he had a solid resume.
I can't speak for everyone else, but we all saw the cannon for an arm and just wanted to see Fassel work with him.

Lock. Any modern day comparisons? Maybe a bit Jared Goff ish?

In comment 16499970 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

Lock. Any modern day comparisons? Maybe a bit Jared Goff ish?

He was a talented reclamation project, both personally and PR-wise. He had not lived up to the draft status but was more accomplished than Lock and considered a starter.

If I recall correctly, a lot of people were very wary about this, not only because he had not live up to expectations, but they were upset with the comments that got him in to trouble in the locker room.

Also Kent Graham's sister posted on this board at the time and she had a following.

... when they first signed him. I was aware he was damaged goods. But when he had that monster game against the Jets in mid 1999 after Kent Graham got benched I had an idea we finally had something potentially special at QB.

Kerry Collins is pretty active on Twitter and reposts highlight clips of his time with the team and has pretty funny self-deprecating comments and is highly complementary of his teammates. He has a farm in Tennessee now

.

had way more NFL success than Lock and was a higher regarded prospect when he was drafted.

Collins was the 5th pick in the draft and a pro-bowler his 2nd year. Lock was a 2nd round pick and couldn't keep a starting role.

Collins had issues (on-field) and inconsistencies - despite the off-field baggage, but he is no comparison to Drew Lock.

I don't remember the board sentiment. I was mostly a lurker at that time. My brother posted then though.

what do we have to lose? The giants were pretty awful under Danny Kanott, Mike Cherry, and Kent Graham. The Dave Brown era was over (thank goodness) and Collins had incredible talent and a 2 cent head at the time. I don't remember being a ton of hope at signing, but he performed really well for the Giants. Parlayed that to a very good paying career.

Correct, but I don't think people on BBI were terribly excited about it.

The funny thing was Kent was the starting QB going into the 1999 season, but at training camp the team was selling Kerry Collins jerseys.

would be a closer comp to what Collins was at the time than Lock. Mayfield/Collins both highly drafted - pretty decent early in their careers and lost it for a bit.

Extremely different. Collins got a team to a championship game.

In 2020 when Lock got a chance to start, he was one of the worst quarterbacks in the NFL. Lock is galactically inaccurate with the football.

I'm shocked by the optimism I've read on here. No one who has seen him play much would believe he's the answer.

Of more than a couple of players in the past 25-30 years with his ability to throw the football. What held him back was creativity. He wasn’t Joe Montana or Brett Favre. And when things went south in a game, he couldn’t bring a team back except to continue to throw. Some of that may be blamed on coaching.

In comment 16500002 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Correct, but I don't think people on BBI were terribly excited about it. The funny thing was Kent was the starting QB going into the 1999 season, but at training camp the team was selling Kerry Collins jerseys.

There was a bunch of negativity on BBI, he's a racist, he's a drunk, he's a loser etc. He got trashed on here for his immobility but his arm was amazing when he had time.

Good times

In comment 16500021 Ivan15 said:

Quote:

Of more than a couple of players in the past 25-30 years with his ability to throw the football. What held him back was creativity. He wasn’t Joe Montana or Brett Favre. And when things went south in a game, he couldn’t bring a team back except to continue to throw. Some of that may be blamed on coaching.

He also made some of the dumbest throws you will ever see.

We didn’t really have a consistent QB. I remember going to see Giants Vs Cards in 1999 late in the season when Collin’s was the starting QB and he and Toomer were really clicking. Ended up throwing the winning TD to Toomer.

In comment 16500019 Jerry in_DC said:

Quote:

would be a closer comp to what Collins was at the time than Lock. Mayfield/Collins both highly drafted - pretty decent early in their careers and lost it for a bit.

Good comp.

In comment 16500025 Larry in Pencilvania said:

Quote:

In comment 16500002 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Correct, but I don't think people on BBI were terribly excited about it. The funny thing was Kent was the starting QB going into the 1999 season, but at training camp the team was selling Kerry Collins jerseys. There was a bunch of negativity on BBI, he's a racist, he's a drunk, he's a loser etc. He got trashed on here for his immobility but his arm was amazing when he had time. Good times

Your post jogged my memory about the drunk comments. Yes, now I remember that too.

There were a bunch of posters who were unhappy that we signed a "racist drunk."

In comment 16500034 JerseyCityJoe said:

Quote:

In comment 16500021 Ivan15 said: Quote: Of more than a couple of players in the past 25-30 years with his ability to throw the football. What held him back was creativity. He wasn’t Joe Montana or Brett Favre. And when things went south in a game, he couldn’t bring a team back except to continue to throw. Some of that may be blamed on coaching. He also made some of the dumbest throws you will ever see.

I Still can recall the pick six he threw vs Arizona just before the half

I believe he had gone to rehab and was ok there. The racist stuff I thought as long as his teammates were good with him I d let them handle it. I didn't know what was true and what wasn't.

From what I remember, fans in general were skeptical of the signing. Yes, he had early success in Carolina, but with his personal demons he fell off the face of the earth.

Some were leary of the impact on the team. I think to his benefit, he had good coaching and support when he came over.

When he was "on" he was one of the best throwing Qbs i've seen. He was prone to some real bad games as most remember in the Superbowl.

I thought he did better than he did. He did take them to the NFC championship, but I thought he had some above average passing seasons adjusted for the era. I guess not. He had a big arm though and it only took a few appearances under Fassel for me to get hopeful.

Imagine if Kirk Cousins was considered a rasict drunk in Washington to change scenery and then he went to Vikings and replaced Case Keenum like he did, but then took them to super bowl

is actually a good story about redemption.

Alcohol issues, racial incident(s), as far as I know since he sought treatment he has remained incident free.

I'm not sure he gets that second chance today.

In comment 16500151 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

is actually a good story about redemption. Alcohol issues, racial incident(s), as far as I know since he sought treatment he has remained incident free. I'm not sure he gets that second chance today.

We know Cleveland would have signed him today and over paid him. Watson anyone?

I think we brought in when he made that throw , you know the bread into the basket

In comment 16500062 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16500025 Larry in Pencilvania said: Quote: In comment 16500002 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Correct, but I don't think people on BBI were terribly excited about it. The funny thing was Kent was the starting QB going into the 1999 season, but at training camp the team was selling Kerry Collins jerseys. There was a bunch of negativity on BBI, he's a racist, he's a drunk, he's a loser etc. He got trashed on here for his immobility but his arm was amazing when he had time. Good times Your post jogged my memory about the drunk comments. Yes, now I remember that too. There were a bunch of posters who were unhappy that we signed a "racist drunk."

That's what I remember but he had a helluva arm and locals liked him because he came from PSU.

Browning Nagle but with far less accuracy. Both had very big arms and did little with them.

Lock got a 1 year deal.

As the next KC type QB without the issues. ATL will probably be looking to move him after this year if Penix is the real deal.

remember that when the Giants signed him, it was a major shock. No one saw it coming.

is that the Giants referred to him in all press releaseas and statements as "backup quarterback Kerry Collins." They did it so many times it was as if Kerry Collins had legally changed his first name to "Backup Quarterback." Which was clearly their way of hedging their bets because KC had run himself out of Carolina, where he'd been pretty good before he crashed and burned.

I always thought that, given the Giants' willingness to sign Christian Peter and Kerry Collins, there must have been a kick-ass AA meeting somewhere in the bowels of Giants Stadium.

He was an upgrade over Graham in terms of the throws he could make. Pretty ropes anywhere on the field. Ike reeling in the seams and Toomer toe dragging the lines. It was nice when it worked.

But then he would throw to nobody. Or the secondary. Or hang on and get swallowed by the rush.

And fumbling the snap. Always at the most critical and inexplicable moments. That's what really soured me on him. Bumblefuck Butterfingers groping around on the turf.

In comment 16500223 81_Great_Dane said:

Quote:

is that the Giants referred to him in all press releaseas and statements as "backup quarterback Kerry Collins." They did it so many times it was as if Kerry Collins had legally changed his first name to "Backup Quarterback." Which was clearly their way of hedging their bets because KC had run himself out of Carolina, where he'd been pretty good before he crashed and burned. I always thought that, given the Giants' willingness to sign Christian Peter and Kerry Collins, there must have been a kick-ass AA meeting somewhere in the bowels of Giants Stadium.

Ahhh, Christian Peter "the girl-friend beater."

In between telling stories about Bert Jones, Ernie couldn't help but talk about his connection with Joe Paterno at Penn State and that Paterno spoke highly of Collins and that was all Ernie needed to know.

Also important to note, the other QB options at the time- Graham and Kanell, were not Ernie's picks. They were George Young's picks (Graham in 1992, Kanell in 1996). They signed Collins in February of 1999 and let Kanell walk after that.

Though they tried to soft sell his signing as a low risk gamble, Collins was still given a 4 year contract for $16 M & released Kanell to free up cap space. So it was always a matter of when, not if, that Collins would take over. Because Graham finished 1998 on an up note, they let him start the season, until he envitably faltered and that opened the door for Collins for good.

As many noted above, BBI was split between a QB in Collins who was going to unlock his promise as a 1st round pick. Others felt he was a drunk racist who would be a distraction and a bust in NY.

In comment 16500235 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 16500223 81_Great_Dane said: Quote: is that the Giants referred to him in all press releaseas and statements as "backup quarterback Kerry Collins." They did it so many times it was as if Kerry Collins had legally changed his first name to "Backup Quarterback." Which was clearly their way of hedging their bets because KC had run himself out of Carolina, where he'd been pretty good before he crashed and burned. I always thought that, given the Giants' willingness to sign Christian Peter and Kerry Collins, there must have been a kick-ass AA meeting somewhere in the bowels of Giants Stadium. Ahhh, Christian Peter "the girl-friend beater."

One of Dr. Joel's reclaimation projects.

In comment 16500002 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

Correct, but I don't think people on BBI were terribly excited about it. The funny thing was Kent was the starting QB going into the 1999 season, but at training camp the team was selling Kerry Collins jerseys.

I was convinced coming into '99 that Kent Graham was going to have a pro bowl season. He played so well at the end of '98 I guess that's what I was basing it on. Plus I was still in my early twenties and naïve 🙂

Def felt like it was worth the risk. My friend was like, "This guy's been out of the nfl, backpacking around Europe? It'll never work out."

Glad it did.

but you knew on the first series what kind of game would have. Especially if he got hit early, it would be a bad day. When he was on he was excellent.

WillVAB, Collins was WAAAAAY better than Kirk Cousins.

In comment 16500239 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In between telling stories about Bert Jones, Ernie couldn't help but talk about his connection with Joe Paterno at Penn State and that Paterno spoke highly of Collins and that was all Ernie needed to know. Also important to note, the other QB options at the time- Graham and Kanell, were not Ernie's picks. They were George Young's picks (Graham in 1992, Kanell in 1996). They signed Collins in February of 1999 and let Kanell walk after that. Though they tried to soft sell his signing as a low risk gamble, Collins was still given a 4 year contract for $16 M & released Kanell to free up cap space. So it was always a matter of when, not if, that Collins would take over. Because Graham finished 1998 on an up note, they let him start the season, until he envitably faltered and that opened the door for Collins for good. As many noted above, BBI was split between a QB in Collins who was going to unlock his promise as a 1st round pick. Others felt he was a drunk racist who would be a distraction and a bust in NY.

Ha ha... I completely memory-holed the Accorsi waxing poetic about Penn State. I suppose he's still mumbling about it someplace this morning.

team when we signed Collins. Some good players, but not a complete team and in major need of a QB.

I was not thrilled with the signing after reading about Collins’ issues. He also had a brief stop in New Orleans after Carolina and the fact that they didn’t want to keep him made me think Collins was a bust and the Giants were wasting their time.

Glad I was wrong, while they didn’t win a SB with Collins they got to one and had some fun seasons to watch.

who had blown it up with personal problems. Nothing like Drew Lock - who has yet to show any real starting potential, but as far as I know has no personal issues.

during that era.

as a Giant, knew their OL coach at the time (McNally), and McNally took it and had Collins autograph it and personalize it for my son. Very nice of Kerry to do that.

In comment 16500239 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In between telling stories about Bert Jones, Ernie couldn't help but talk about his connection with Joe Paterno at Penn State and that Paterno spoke highly of Collins and that was all Ernie needed to know. Also important to note, the other QB options at the time- Graham and Kanell, were not Ernie's picks. They were George Young's picks (Graham in 1992, Kanell in 1996). They signed Collins in February of 1999 and let Kanell walk after that. Though they tried to soft sell his signing as a low risk gamble, Collins was still given a 4 year contract for $16 M & released Kanell to free up cap space. So it was always a matter of when, not if, that Collins would take over. Because Graham finished 1998 on an up note, they let him start the season, until he envitably faltered and that opened the door for Collins for good. As many noted above, BBI was split between a QB in Collins who was going to unlock his promise as a 1st round pick. Others felt he was a drunk racist who would be a distraction and a bust in NY.

Another Ernie staple for a brief period of time in 2004 was telling everyone how much they liked Matt Schaub and how he was who they would have picked in that draft if they did not go QB in the first round. He was actually proven correct in part since Schaub was probably the best QB in that class after Rivers, Manning and Big Ben.

As an ex-media guy himself Ernie understood very well that he'd always get very favorable shake from the media by making himself accessible. Ralph V once mentioned that it was a bit of a culture shock for the beat writers when Reese took over because he only spoke to the media on limited occasions, whereas with Ernie you could basically call him any day at any time and he would talk to you and give you what you needed.

but that changed the moment he took the field. After years of watching Dave Brown and Danny Kanell, I had forgotten what a QB who could throw looked like. Credit to Fassel for fixing a number of his flaws, and for Kerry for putting the work in. He was a good Giant.

Ernie, Kerry, Penn State stuff is in "The GM." It's from EA's POV but you get more of the details.

He was certainly more talented and accomplished than Lock. He was available because he had a drinking problem that came to light and he made racist comments in the locker room in Carolina.

Before he even played a down, there was a QB controversy here. As Eric said, Kent Graham's sister posted here and he had a very loyal following, so a lot of people on BBI were upset with the signing.

Incidentally, that is what brought me to BBI. Spring of 1999, I was at MSG for the Knicks playoff game with LJs 4 pt. play. After the game, I met my then fiance, now wife, at the since closed Park Avenue Country Club, where she watched the game. I met a very drunk Tiki Barber there and he was quite candid about the QB situation (he was pro-Collins). I never heard of BBI before that and a friend (DavidinBMNY) suggested I share the story here. The rest is history.

Graham was not an entrenched starter. Jones is.

In comment 16500388 eric2425ny said:

Quote:

team when we signed Collins. Some good players, but not a complete team and in major need of a QB. I was not thrilled with the signing after reading about Collins’ issues. He also had a brief stop in New Orleans after Carolina and the fact that they didn’t want to keep him made me think Collins was a bust and the Giants were wasting their time. Glad I was wrong, while they didn’t win a SB with Collins they got to one and had some fun seasons to watch.

If we had played the Raiders instead of the Ravens in that Super Bowl we would have had a better chance of winning

In comment 16500355 Victor in CT said:

Quote:

but you knew on the first series what kind of game would have. Especially if he got hit early, it would be a bad day. When he was on he was excellent. WillVAB, Collins was WAAAAAY better than Kirk Cousins.

I would advise you to go look at both of their stats. Kirk put up better numbers by far. But even if you wanted to compare apples to apples in different eras, I picked Cousins on purpose because like they were both above average solid starters and nothing more compared to their counterparts.

I think you might change your mind if you go and look.

In comment 16500774 jnoble said:

Quote:

In comment 16500388 eric2425ny said: Quote: team when we signed Collins. Some good players, but not a complete team and in major need of a QB. I was not thrilled with the signing after reading about Collins’ issues. He also had a brief stop in New Orleans after Carolina and the fact that they didn’t want to keep him made me think Collins was a bust and the Giants were wasting their time. Glad I was wrong, while they didn’t win a SB with Collins they got to one and had some fun seasons to watch. If we had played the Raiders instead of the Ravens in that Super Bowl we would have had a better chance of winning

Even against the Ravens, the game was over before it started because they had a stupid gameplan that they never adjusted. Instead of playing the brand that got them there, they played scared to run and almost exclusively threw deep, which was not the way to go. That game could have at least been a closer matchup if they trusted their team.

The other thing about that game too many people overlook is the defensive holding that overturned the pick 6. Yes, if that TD stands, it is a very different game and they have some confidence. But, that doesn't mean it was a bad call. That season the league focused on defensive holding among the front 7 and Hamilton was the leader in flags among all DL. It was exactly how that was called all year and he was guilty all year.

The 2002 team is still one of my all-time favorites, especially on offense. Collins/Barber/Shockey/Toomer/Hilliard/ etc.

In comment 16500231 IIT said:

Quote:

He was an upgrade over Graham in terms of the throws he could make. Pretty ropes anywhere on the field. Ike reeling in the seams and Toomer toe dragging the lines. It was nice when it worked. But then he would throw to nobody. Or the secondary. Or hang on and get swallowed by the rush. And fumbling the snap. Always at the most critical and inexplicable moments. That's what really soured me on him. Bumblefuck Butterfingers groping around on the turf.

I don't remember that. I believe you that it happened but I just don't recall making note of it at the time.

:thumbsup:

In comment 16499970 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

Lock. Any modern day comparisons? Maybe a bit Jared Goff ish?

Collins was more highly regarded coming out of college, a higher draft pick than Lock. He was the 5th overall pick, 2nd QB taken after Steve McNair. He went to the pro bowl his 2nd season and led the recent expansion Panthers to 9-3 record and playoffs.

I thought it was a worthwhile gamble when Ernie signed him, but also thought it was good that we traded for Eli.

was already said by others. Nevermind.